What if dreaming is the whole point of sleep?
Link and overall reaction
- Multiple commenters note the original URL had a typo; fixed versions are shared.
- The article is seen as interesting but some find the “dreaming is the whole point” framing overstated or “silly.”
Functions of sleep vs. functions of dreaming
- Many argue sleep has multiple purposes: physical recovery, metabolic cleanup, and cognitive processing.
- Glymphatic “flushing” of waste during sleep is repeatedly cited as a core, possibly life-or-death, function.
- Several see dreaming as one function among many, not the main one. Some report feeling well-rested after sleep or naps with no remembered dreams.
- Others propose that REM/dreaming reprocesses experiences, changes “weights” in neural circuitry, and supports learning (e.g., improving at sports after practice).
Neural mechanisms and AI analogies
- One line of discussion likens dreams to noise injection or “reweighting” in neural networks; others rebut that brain plasticity involves dendrite growth, myelination, and inhibitory neurons rather than simple down-weighting.
- Multiple comments compare dreaming to a flight simulator or disk defragmentation.
- Some speculate that if dreams serve training/regularization purposes in humans, analogous “dreaming” phases might help AI/LLMs.
Evolutionary and behavioral perspectives
- Explanations for why cleanup and dreaming require sleep include: reduced sensory input, phase separation of functions, energy budgeting, and accumulated evolutionary dependencies.
- Some suggest sleep also evolved to keep organisms still and quiet during predator-active hours.
- There’s debate over whether we experience dreams as fully “real,” and whether evolution has effectively given us “two lives” (waking and dreaming).
Animals, consciousness, and evidence
- Observations of twitching, running, and vocalizing dogs/cats lead many to infer animal dreaming.
- Others counter that without verbal reports, dreaming in non-humans isn’t provable; supporters reply that, by the same logic, we can’t conclusively prove other humans dream either (philosophical-zombie argument).
- REM-like states in other mammals and birds are mentioned as suggestive but not definitive.
Psychological/therapeutic role of dreams
- A psychotherapy perspective views dreams as “multiplayer”: the dreamer plus an interpreter.
- Reported patterns: dreamers rarely notice their own behavior, which often exposes unconscious interpersonal anxieties more clearly than waking symptoms.
- Lucid dreaming is described as emotionally and cognitively exhausting but potentially useful for self-reflection; people often need a second REM phase afterward.
Insomnia, deprivation, and harm
- Severe insomnia experiences include hallucinations and “breaking down,” reinforcing that sleep itself is medically critical.
- Historical and clinical examples (e.g., extreme deprivation in interrogations, fatal insomnia syndromes, rodent studies) are cited to argue that prolonged sleeplessness can be lethal, though causality details are debated.
- Some see dreams as possibly therapeutic, possibly harmful, but usually forgotten; core survival value is attributed to sleep, not dreaming.
Brain vs. computers and imagination
- Commenters note how poorly we still understand the brain despite long familiarity, contrasting it with engineered, modular computers.
- Energy comparisons: the human body ~100 W, with a portion for the brain; laptops generating language at ~30 W are contrasted with human efficiency and evolutionary “training.”
- There’s an extended subthread on visual imagination: some claim “retina-like” subjective resolution; others say mental imagery is lower resolution and just-in-time detailed. The spectrum from strong visualization to aphantasia is discussed.
Dream content and modifiers
- One hypothesis: the less one engages with fantasy/media, the more mundane dreams become; exposure to fantasy may enable more bizarre dreams.
- Various subjective reports: pets dreaming vividly, déjà vu, and drug/supplement effects (trazodone dampening dreams for some; lion’s mane mushroom claimed to intensify them).