The Right Kind of Stubborn
An essay by Paul Graham on “the right kind of stubborn” prompts a debate over how to distinguish productive persistence from rigid obstinacy. Commenters contrast being attached to a goal versus being fixated on a specific solution, link the idea to growth vs. fixed mindsets, and note how confidence and dominance often cause obstinate people to be rewarded anyway. Many also question how much these traits are objectively real versus labels applied in hindsight, and share personal examples where persistence, flexibility, luck, and social perception all intertwined.
Distinguishing persistence vs obstinacy
- Many commenters restate the core distinction:
- Persistent: stubborn about the goal, flexible about methods, updates when presented with new information.
- Obstinate: stubborn about a particular approach or belief, ignores counter‑evidence.
- Several give simple heuristics: “same response despite new info = obstinate; updated response with new info = persistent.”
- Some note it’s a spectrum and often only clear in hindsight whether someone was persistent or merely obstinate.
Mindset, personality, and cognition
- Multiple links drawn to “growth vs fixed mindset,” though some note growth‑mindset research hasn’t replicated strongly.
- Others map traits to Big Five/OCEAN dimensions (e.g., openness + low neuroticism + low agreeableness → productive persistence).
- One line of argument: obstinacy often comes from insecurity and identity; needing to be “right at every step” vs just solving the problem.
- Another view: obstinacy may stem from black‑and‑white thinking; difficulty with nuance and qualifiers like “often” or “it depends.”
Outcomes, luck, and labeling
- Some argue the persistent/obstinate distinction is largely post‑hoc: winners are called persistent, losers stubborn.
- Role of luck and selection bias is emphasized; “successful people do X” tropes are treated skeptically.
- Counterexamples raised (famous innovators with clearly irrational or obstinate beliefs) challenge a clean moral sorting.
Social perception and confidence
- Several note that in public or hierarchical settings, obstinate people often appear more confident and persuasive than receptive, thoughtful ones.
- There’s discussion of how audiences prefer simple, dominant performances over nuanced, conditional reasoning.
Concrete examples and applications
- E‑ink calendar founder asks if continuing is persistent or obstinate; replies focus on:
- Distinguishing product vs marketing problems.
- Considering family, finances, and planned risk.
- Willingness to change framing, pricing, branding, channels.
- QA and safety‑critical domains are cited where “stubborn” insistence on quality is a feature, not a bug.
- Workplace anecdotes show how “being receptive” often matters more for reputation than whether suggestions are actually new.
Critiques of the essay and framing
- Some praise it as a clear, “return to form” piece with a useful conceptual distinction.
- Others see it as oversimplified, pseudo‑psychological taxonomy akin to pop‑management or self‑help.
- Several want more concrete negative examples and more guidance on the hardest issue: when a persistent person should actually quit.