Htmx, Raku and Pico CSS

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Enthusiasm for HTMX, Raku, and classless CSS frameworks like Pico highlights a broader push back toward server‑rendered, HTML‑driven web apps as an antidote to complex SPA stacks. Many commenters praise HTMX-style hypermedia for reducing client-side JavaScript, centralizing state on the server, and making internal tools easier to build, while others argue that modern UX demands, offline behavior, and highly interactive interfaces still justify React, WASM, or SPA-style approaches. The thread also surfaces trade-offs around semantic HTML, performance, and CSS strategies (Tailwind vs. classless vs. pure CSS), underscoring that no single frontend pattern fits all applications.

HTMX adoption and use cases

  • Several commenters use HTMX successfully for internal tools and dashboards (order monitoring, management UIs, etc.).
  • Reported benefits: less client-side JS, no separate SPA/API, faster iteration, simpler deployments, and smaller codebases.
  • Common pattern: start with full server-rendered pages, then progressively replace parts with HTMX-driven partials.

Comparison with SPAs and frontend frameworks

  • Many view HTMX as great for “simple to medium” apps, especially internal dashboards and CRUD workflows.
  • For highly interactive, optimistic, or complex UIs (popovers, modals, rich state), some still prefer React or similar SPA frameworks.
  • Others argue that React/Next.js overcomplicate rendering, state, and tooling compared to HTMX + server templates.
  • Disagreement over whether HTMX truly reduces code vs. just moving complexity into backend templates.

State management and architecture

  • One camp emphasizes HTMX’s benefit: most application state lives on the server; the browser merely represents it via URLs/HTML.
  • Counterpoint: many UX flows are easier with client-side state, and server-side state can be painful in modern backends.
  • Debate over keeping state URL-addressable vs. richer client interactions and offline behavior.

Alternative hypermedia / “HTML-over-the-wire” tools

  • Mentions of Unpoly, Twinspark, Alpine AJAX, HTMZ, and PHOOOS as related approaches.
  • Some find Unpoly’s update model requires fewer special endpoints than HTMX but note heavier responses and sparse tutorials.
  • HTMZ + Spectre.css touted as ultra-light alternative (tiny JS footprint) vs. HTMX’s ~45–48KB.

CSS and styling approaches

  • Pico CSS praised as a simple “classless” default; others mention Spectre.css and BeerCSS.
  • Classless frameworks can conflict with embedded components (e.g., Leaflet maps) due to global styles.
  • Tailwind sparks mixed reactions: seen as winning in React ecosystems, but some lament less “clean/semantic” HTML; others say semantics are unaffected.

Raku and backend stacks

  • Raku + Cro templates highlighted as a pleasant backend pairing with HTMX, similar in spirit to Go templates or Quarkus+Qute.
  • General theme: HTMX pairs well with languages that have strong templating systems.

Frontend fatigue and web history

  • Strong frustration with frontend churn; some developers retreat to backend or server-rendered approaches.
  • Others enjoy experimenting with modern FE stacks (Astro, Solid, etc.), accepting rapid obsolescence as part of the field.
  • Side discussion on early web history (JS vs CSS timing) and proper semantic HTML, including criticism of href="#" patterns with HTMX.