1913: When Hitler, Trotsky, Tito, Freud and Stalin all lived in the same place

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Vienna’s role as a pre–World War I cultural and political crossroads — where figures like Hitler, Trotsky, Stalin, Freud, and others briefly overlapped — prompts reflections on how dense clusters of talent and ideology can shape world history. Commenters explore the Austro‑Hungarian Empire as a kind of proto–European Union, contrasting its cosmopolitan Vienna with the poverty and repression in its periphery and comparing its atmosphere to modern hubs like Manhattan or Shenzhen. The conversation then widens into parallels with today’s geopolitical tensions, touching on the roots of fascism and communism, the impact of European refugees on U.S. intellectual life, and contemporary fears of great‑power conflict and nuclear escalation.

Vienna 1913 and Historical Clustering

  • Commenters are struck by how many later-famous figures were in Vienna at once and extend this to others (e.g., Wittgenstein and Hitler possibly sharing a school).
  • This is used to highlight Vienna’s pre‑WWI status as a major intellectual and political hub whose importance has since declined.

Counterfactuals: Nuking Vienna & Alternate WWII Paths

  • Some imagine smuggling a nuclear bomb into 1913 Vienna and debate whether this would prevent or merely reshape WWI/WWII.
  • One view: empires and tensions were so “baked in” that some other spark would cause similar wars.
  • Another view: such an explosion itself could become the trigger for WWI.

Austro‑Hungarian Empire, Proto‑EU, and Nostalgia

  • One camp romanticizes the empire/Vienna as a tolerant, multiethnic “proto‑EU” with great cultural flowering and optimism before WWI.
  • Others push back: emphasize political paralysis, harsh treatment and poverty in outer provinces, and intense antisemitism; argue it was widely seen as doomed and oppressive.
  • Debate over whether it could ever have delivered lasting peace, given its dependence on Germany and enmity from other great powers.

Refugees, Manhattan, and Intellectual Centers

  • Several comments trace how many Viennese and Central European refugees later powered US science, culture, and the Manhattan Project.
  • Some argue US intellectual life peaked with first‑generation European émigrés and has since “regressed to the mean.”
  • Others dispute any “decline” narrative, pointing to ongoing American achievements and structural factors like funding and industry.

Parallels to Today, WW3 Risk, and Ukraine

  • Multiple comparisons between pre‑WWI Europe and the current world: rising tensions, great‑power rivalry, regional flashpoints.
  • Strong disagreement on whether we are “on the cusp of WW3”: some see elevated but manageable risk; others see current proxy wars (especially Ukraine) as part of a de facto global conflict.
  • Extended subthread on nuclear escalation, deterrence, and whether aiding Ukraine is necessary defense or dangerously provocative.

Ideology: Communism, Fascism, Capitalism, Gnosticism

  • Long side‑discussion links 20th‑century totalitarian ideologies to older religious/occult patterns (Gnosticism/Hermeticism); others challenge the historical and conceptual accuracy of this.
  • Dispute over whether fascism emerges mainly from extreme capitalism, is a reaction to Bolshevism, or is just another form of hyper‑centralized authoritarianism.
  • Liberalism and free markets are alternately portrayed as bulwarks against fascism or as shallow, consumerist systems that erode deeper cultures.

Culture, Literature, and Coffeehouses

  • Various books, plays, and films about pre‑WWI Vienna, 1913, and café culture are recommended.
  • Several first‑person travel notes on Vienna’s surviving coffeehouses; mix of appreciation for the atmosphere with mild disappointment in some iconic pastries.