New research on anesthesia and microtubules gives new clues about consciousness
Role of microtubules in anesthesia and consciousness
- Study: stabilizing microtubules in rats with a drug delayed loss of righting reflex under isoflurane, suggesting microtubules are one mechanism by which this anesthetic induces unconsciousness.
- Commenters note this fits long‑standing ideas that microtubules matter for neuronal function and intracellular transport.
- Others stress this is far from showing microtubules are “the seat of consciousness”; many classical (non‑quantum) pathways could explain the effect and have not been ruled out.
Quantum mechanics and “quantum consciousness”
- Multiple comments argue everything physical is “quantum” at base, so that label alone adds little.
- Decoherence, temperature, and overdamped motion at cellular scales are cited as reasons to doubt long‑lived, brain‑relevant quantum states in microtubules.
- Critics see “quantum” here as vague and under‑specified (no clear mechanism, coherence times, or falsifiable predictions), verging on mysticism.
Penrose/Hameroff microtubule theories (Orch OR)
- Thread links this work to the Orch OR model, which many participants regard as speculative, hard to test, and widely criticized.
- Objections raised: misusing Gödel’s theorem to argue human minds surpass algorithms; lack of detailed, workable physics; prior experimental limits casting doubt on required quantum effects.
- A minority argues it’s a legitimate, if fringe, research direction worth probing experimentally.
Free will, determinism, and quantum randomness
- Long subthreads debate whether quantum indeterminacy could ground free will.
- Many argue randomness does not help: “sub‑nuclear dice rolls” are no freer than deterministic algorithms.
- Compatibilist views appear: behavior can be fully determined yet still count as “your” will. Others insist free will requires some non‑physical or non‑deterministic element; views remain unresolved.
Defining consciousness; relation to AI
- Several note we lack a precise definition that clearly distinguishes humans, animals, and systems like LLMs.
- Competing emphases:
- Consciousness as self‑awareness and theory of mind.
- Consciousness as qualia / “what it’s like” experience.
- Consciousness as possibly illusory yet psychologically compelling.
- LLMs are cited as evidence that sophisticated linguistic and problem‑solving behavior is achievable with purely classical computation, weakening arguments that intelligence requires special quantum mechanisms.
Methodology, interpretation, and media framing
- Concerns about small sample size (n≈8), variability across rats, and lack of systematic exclusion of other anesthetic targets.
- Some see the paper’s cautious claims (“supports,” “consistent with”) as reasonable; others think even that is overstated given alternative explanations.
- Popular write‑ups are widely criticized for overselling the findings and implying “proof” of quantum consciousness rather than a narrow result on microtubule involvement in anesthesia.