On 17th century "cocaine"
Researchers analyzing 17th‑century mummified brain tissue in Italy report chemical traces consistent with coca leaf use, prompting debate over how confidently such findings can distinguish Andean coca from similar alkaloids in Old World plants. Commenters argue over whether it is accurate or misleading to describe traditional coca consumption as “cocaine use,” drawing analogies to caffeine in coffee or alcohol in beer and highlighting the gap between chemical and colloquial meanings. The thread broadens into personal reports on coca tea’s mild stimulant effects, the modern legal and medical status of coca and cocaine, and curiosities like Coca‑Cola’s ongoing use of de‑cocainized coca leaf extract.
Chemical evidence and tropane alkaloids
- Early skepticism questioned whether detected compounds might come from other tropane-alkaloid plants (e.g., nightshades).
- Commenters point out the paper reports hygrine, said there to be unique to Erythroxylum (coca).
- Another commenter notes Wikipedia suggests related alkaloid cuscohygrine is in belladonna and biosynthetically derived from hygrine, but this is contested.
- Others argue there is no strong evidence hygrine itself occurs in nightshades; possible explanations include low concentration or alternative biosynthetic pathways, but this remains unclear.
“Coca” vs. “cocaine” – semantics and framing
- Large subthread debates whether it’s accurate to say historical coca-leaf users were “using cocaine.”
- One side: cocaine the molecule is the active ingredient in both coca leaves and modern powder; difference is only dose and concentration, like beer vs. grain alcohol or coffee vs. caffeine pills.
- Other side: in ordinary language “doing cocaine” refers to refined powder (and often excludes crack); calling coca-leaf chewing “cocaine use” is seen as misleading.
- Disagreement extends to whether crack counts as “cocaine” colloquially and whether legal categories (e.g., DEA distinctions) should drive word usage.
Subjective effects of coca leaves/tea
- Multiple travelers report coca tea and leaf chewing in the Andes.
- Most describe effects as mild: comparable to or weaker than coffee/tea or nicotine; often no euphoria, sometimes slight mood lift or “focused single-task” feeling.
- Some find it helpful for altitude sickness or headaches; others notice no benefit. Several mention numbness in the mouth.
- Sensitivity to caffeine and individual variation are emphasized.
Legal, commercial, and policy issues
- Many criticize current drug laws; some explicitly wish coca leaves were legal outside South America.
- Discussion notes coca-based historical beverages (e.g., Vin Mariani) and modern coca liqueurs and teas in some countries.
- Several comments detail that Coca-Cola still uses decocainized coca leaf extract via a single licensed US importer; this is used as an example of unequal or “grandfathered” legal treatment, though how many others have sought similar licenses is disputed.
Medical use of cocaine
- Cocaine is noted as still Schedule II in the US and used occasionally as a topical anesthetic and vasoconstrictor (e.g., some nasal procedures).
- Some argue it’s a superior local anesthetic with low allergy risk and wish it were more available (e.g., in advanced first-aid kits).
- Others counter that comparable anesthetics exist without cocaine’s addiction potential, making broader availability unjustified.