The great abandonment: what happens to the natural world when people disappear?

Concept of “abandonment” and nature’s role

• Several comments argue the framing is backwards: “abandonment” is a human perspective; from nature’s side it’s reclamation once human pressure stops.
• Multiple posters stress humans are part of nature, not outside it. The idea of a harmonious, self-balancing “pristine nature” is criticized as mythologized.
• Ecological succession and “climax communities” are described as largely debunked in their deterministic form; real ecosystems are dynamic, with cycles of collapse and regeneration.
• The “baseline problem” in conservation is highlighted: what historical state are we trying to restore, and who decides? Examples like the Salton Sea show that “restoration” depends heavily on which year you choose as the target.

Human impact, sustainability, and future energy

• Some see episodes like COVID lockdowns as evidence that ecosystems quickly benefit when human noise and disturbance pause.
• Others counter that many landscapes have been co-shaped by humans for millennia (e.g., Aboriginal land use), and that complete withdrawal is not automatically beneficial.
• There is extended discussion that industrial civilization is fundamentally unsustainable, having burned through vast fossil energy accumulated over millions of years.
• A recurring claim is that any future civilization after collapse would lack easy-access energy resources, making re‑industrialization much harder or impossible.

Depopulation, fertility, and social tradeoffs

• Ghost towns, abandoned rural areas, and shrinking cities (US Great Plains, Japan, Russia, Bulgaria) are discussed as present-day examples of “the great abandonment.”
• Large subthread on falling fertility: causes mentioned include women’s autonomy, economic precarity, high housing and childcare costs, career penalties, and weak male participation in parenting.
• Some argue low fertility is “self-correcting” via natural selection or cultural selection (e.g., high-fertility religious groups); others strongly dispute this, emphasizing culture, economics, and no observed rebounds.
• Concern is raised that aging populations threaten pension systems, stock-market-based retirements, and care capacity, with grim speculation about euthanasia or cutting elder healthcare.
• Others welcome population decline as ecological relief, while warning about rapid, compounding shrinkage once fertility stays well below replacement.

Abandoned places and wildness

• Personal anecdotes describe why homes end up full of possessions: elderly deaths, low property values, “storage” houses that are never cleared.
• Rail lines and mining towns vanish rapidly under vegetation and animal engineering (e.g., beavers), illustrating how quickly infrastructure is erased.
• DMZ, Chernobyl, and remote rural areas are cited where wildlife becomes abundant and unusually unafraid of humans, contrasting with “zoo-like” nature near civilization.