Divers recover Phoenician shipwreck that sank 2.6k years ago off coast of Spain
Divers’ recovery of a 2,600‑year‑old Phoenician shipwreck off the coast of Spain prompts reflections on how such wooden vessels can survive millennia, from protection by sand and sediment to modern conservation techniques used in museums like those for the Vasa and Mary Rose. Commenters connect the find to the broader history of writing and alphabets, noting the Phoenicians’ role in spreading an efficient consonant-based script that underpins many modern writing systems and contrasting it with non-literate yet rich oral cultures. The thread also touches on how rare well-preserved wrecks actually are and what they reveal about ancient trade, navigation, and material durability.
Origins of Language vs. Writing
- Several comments stress the difference between language (an evolved human capacity) and writing (a recent technology).
- Consensus in the thread: spoken language predates writing by a very long time, likely as long as anatomically modern humans have existed.
- The actual origin of language is labeled “basically unknown”; cave art and storytelling are suggested as early proto-systems but treated as speculative.
Phoenician Alphabet and Its Influence
- Multiple comments explain that Phoenicians did not invent writing, but developed and spread an alphabet derived from older North-Semitic and Egyptian systems.
- The Phoenician script is described as an abjad (consonant-only), reduced from ~27 to 22 letters as certain sounds merged.
- This 22-letter set was too small for many languages; Greeks added vowels to create the first “full” alphabet, and later Latin followed.
- Many modern alphabets, including some in South Asia, are said to trace back to the Phoenician lineage.
Non-literate Societies and Oral Traditions
- Examples given: Aboriginal Australians, various pre-industrial societies, and some European groups whose languages only recently gained written forms.
- Aboriginal cultures are described as rich in oral transmission and symbolic drawing (e.g., sand drawings, rock art) despite lacking a formal script.
- A 1969 cross-cultural study is cited: ~39% no writing, ~37% pictures only, ~24% writing.
Age and Independent Emergence of Writing
- One side emphasizes strong archaeological evidence that writing is recent (proto-writing ~9,000 years, true writing ~5,000) and tied to complex agricultural states.
- Skeptical voices argue that absence of evidence isn’t proof of absence and note the possibility of lost or undiscovered records.
- Discussion covers Mesopotamian token systems, Egyptian hieroglyphs, Chinese and Mesoamerican scripts, and the role of accounting.
Shipwreck Preservation and Material Decay
- Several comments note that preserved wrecks are exceptional; in most waters, wood is quickly destroyed by organisms and physical forces.
- Good preservation occurs in special conditions: deep ocean, low-oxygen seas (Baltic, Black Sea), or burial under sediment/sand.
- This particular wreck was protected by sand and later a metal “coffin”; moving it starts a race against decay, requiring multi-year conservation with specialized treatments.
Related Museums and Comparative Wrecks
- Commenters recommend visiting shipwreck museums: Steamboat Arabia (USA), Vasa (Sweden), Mary Rose (UK), and a Baltic wreck museum (Sweden).
- Some find the conservation techniques—drying and resin impregnation—as interesting as the ships themselves.
Numeric Precision and “2.6k” vs “2600”
- A side thread debates whether “2.6k” vs “2600” conveys precision or approximation and how significant figures should be indicated.
- Multiple conventions are discussed, and it’s noted that, in context, both are clearly approximate for the age of the wreck.