Toyota reduces price of new hydrogen car with $15,000 of free fuel
Toyota’s steeply discounted Mirai fuel-cell car and bundled free hydrogen in California reignite debate over hydrogen’s role in clean transport. Commenters generally consider vehicle safety comparable to gas cars but highlight severe practical issues: a sparse and unreliable fueling network, complex and costly fuel-cell systems, and hydrogen that is often produced from fossil fuels rather than renewables. Many argue battery EVs and hybrids are already more economical and scalable for passenger cars, suggesting hydrogen may make more sense for heavy vehicles or niche cases than for mass-market light-duty transport.
Hydrogen car safety
- Several commenters with hands-on or driving experience report no unusual safety issues; one compares it to LPG/natural-gas cars, expecting over-engineered high‑pressure systems.
- Hydrogen is described as generally uneventful to work with, though its flame is hard to see.
- Some argue “physical safety” is moot because the product is commercially irrational, leading to buyer’s remorse and lawsuits.
- One link is shared to a hydrogen safety overview (no consensus discussion of its details in thread).
Refueling infrastructure and range
- California station map is cited: ~65 stations, but only ~33 online with fuel.
- Many call hydrogen cars “the worst of all worlds”: require new production/distribution plus the time and inconvenience of fueling.
- Real-world Mirai driver confirms trip planning strictly constrained by station locations.
- Range anxiety for gas vs EV is debated; broad agreement that EV “running empty” is harder to recover from than ICE.
Driving experience and powertrain
- Hydrogen fuel-cell cars are effectively EVs with a small battery; the fuel cell charges a ~1.2 kWh drive battery that powers the motors.
- Refueling time (about 5 minutes) is contrasted with much longer EV fast-charging, but others note most EV owners “charge while parked” and rarely spend active time refueling.
Environmental and technical concerns
- Water exhaust and black ice: some worry about winter road icing; others note ICE cars already emit substantial water vapor. One person has seen a Mirai drip liquid water.
- Multiple commenters argue most hydrogen today comes from fossil fuels (methane cracking), so “green” branding is misleading.
- Hydrogen’s storage, transport difficulty, corrosion, leakage, and low round‑trip efficiency are heavily criticized.
- Some propose synthetic methane as a more sensible synthetic fuel than hydrogen; others say both are currently uneconomic.
Hydrogen vs BEVs, hybrids, and materials
- Many see Toyota’s hydrogen push as resistance to full BEVs; others argue not all cars globally can be BEVs due to material limits, though that claim is challenged with counter-links.
- Debate over lithium/cobalt availability: one side fears long‑term shortages; others point to cobalt‑free chemistries and improving tech.
- Hybrids and PHEVs are viewed by some as a more practical middle ground; others say a simple BEV from a company good at hybrids would be cheaper and more reliable than hydrogen.
Infrastructure and policy ideas
- UK commenters discuss blending up to ~20% hydrogen into existing methane gas networks and possibly separating it later, but note issues like embrittlement, safety, and fossil-derived “town gas” history.
- Some argue hydrogen might make more sense in large vehicles, trucks, or aircraft, mainly for weight and depot-refueling reasons, though even that is questioned.