The Zizians and the rationalist death cult

Skepticism of “-isms” and Rationalist Identity

• Several comments mock the idea of committing to any “-ism,” suggesting strong ideological labels tend to trap reasoning rather than improve it.
• The name “rationalist” and “LessWrong” are seen by some as inherently smug, implying others are “irrational” or “more wrong,” though defenders say the label is meant as aspirational, not triumphalist.

What the Rationalist Scene Is Actually Like

• Descriptions range from “completely normal nerds” to highly unusual: polyamory, group houses, intense AI-risk focus, altered social norms, drug use, and occasional scandals.
• Many emphasize that most meetups are tame; the highly sexualized or cult-like subcultures are portrayed as outliers in specific hubs (e.g. Berkeley, NYC).
• Some see rationalists as secular humanists who reinvented a quasi-religion: utilitarianism + AI-as-messiah.

Rationality vs. Rationalization

• A recurring critique: the movement often practices “rationalizationism”—elaborate argument chains built on untested or fantastical premises.
• Commenters stress that logic is only as good as its starting axioms and empirical grounding; without that, one can “prove” torture is optimal or justify almost anything.
• Utilitarian consequentialism and longtermism are singled out as especially prone to justifying extreme harms for speculative future benefits.

Cult Dynamics, Zizians, and California Context

• Many see the Zizian cult as another iteration of long-standing California mixtures of tech, self-improvement, New Age spirituality, psychedelics, and communal living, where cults periodically emerge.
• Some argue the murders are best explained by generic cult patterns (charismatic manipulators, sleep deprivation, mental illness) rather than Bayesian math or LessWrong memes.
• Others insist there is a pipeline: vulnerable, high-IQ misfits + psychedelic use + grandiose utilitarian frames → susceptibility to extreme groups like Zizians.
• Defenders note Zizians were eventually banned and denounced by rationalist institutions, and that they are at best tangentially related.

Morality, Evil, and “Common Sense”

• Several draw a line from abstract, high-stakes utilitarian thought experiments (e.g. “torture vs dust specks”) to real-world willingness to rationalize fraud (FTX) or violence.
• There’s repeated emphasis that “rationality without morality” or without a “that sounds nuts” common-sense filter is dangerous.
• Some commenters come to appreciate older moral traditions (Stoicism, long-lived religions) as stabilizing counterweights to rapidly improvised new ideologies.

AI Safety, Influence, and Impact

• The movement’s long focus on AI safety is judged by some as largely ineffective compared to the actual trajectory of modern AI; others argue it has shaped techniques like reinforcement learning from AI feedback.
• Critics worry that rationalist/EA memes (longtermism, doomerism) now inform extremely wealthy tech elites and policy discussions, magnifying the risks of any underlying moral or epistemic errors.