No Pay, No Work; Early Career Lessons

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Revenue Sharing, Equity, and Risk

  • Several stories describe swapping unpaid invoices for revenue share or equity, sometimes leading to very large upside, but commenters stress these are rare exceptions.
  • Others with long consulting careers say almost no client ever had meaningful profit; in their experience, only immediate cash payment is reliable.
  • Some see payment timing as a negotiating lever: earlier, safer cash for less total money vs delayed, riskier payouts (rev share, ownership) for potentially more.

Client Trust, Nonpayment, and Fraud

  • Many recount clients stretching terms (NET 30 → NET 60/90) or simply refusing to pay, forcing court action or making lawsuits uneconomical.
  • Tactics mentioned include “phoenix” bankruptcies, offloading IP to shells, firing contractors before suing makes sense, and running startups on unpaid invoices.
  • A minority report genuinely good-faith clients who renegotiate fairly when cash runs short—but others argue this is unusually lucky.

Startups, Cash Flow, and Loyalty

  • Founders and early employees describe going unpaid or underpaid in exchange for partnership, equity, or later backpay; sometimes it worked out very well, sometimes they never got paid.
  • Several emphasize that this is only viable if you can afford the risk (e.g., partner income, savings); early-career workers with no buffer simply cannot “work for free.”
  • “Loyalty” is frequently used as pressure: some see staying through no-pay as an investment in relationships; others see it as emotional manipulation and a red flag.

Legal Protections and Enforcement

  • In some EU countries, a single unpaid employee can trigger insolvency proceedings; wages rank first in bankruptcy. Contractors have weaker tools but can affect credit scores or sell debts.
  • In US states like California and Massachusetts, late final paychecks can be very costly for employers (penalties, attorney fees, personal liability), but enforcement can be slow and underfunded.

Unpaid Internships and Early-Career Exploitation

  • Unpaid internships are widely criticized as exploitative and primarily benefiting the rich; in tech, they’re almost universally advised against.
  • Legal status varies by country and context, with some loopholes (university placements, “volunteering”) and inconsistent enforcement.

Setting Boundaries: No Pay, No Work?

  • Many argue for a hard line: once an invoice is overdue or a paycheck is missed, stop working.
  • Others advocate situational flexibility—trading short-term pay for long-term relationships, reputation, or equity—but insist this must be an informed, voluntary choice, never an obligation.