Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Xorg vs Wayland: Overall Sentiment

  • Thread is highly polarized: some see Wayland as a necessary modern replacement; others say it still cannot replace Xorg for their real workflows.
  • Pro‑Wayland users report years of daily use with few problems, no tearing, better HiDPI, and smoother multi‑monitor handling.
  • Anti‑Wayland users emphasize that “it doesn’t support me”: they hit crashes, regressions, or missing capabilities and see Xorg as “old but works”.

Remote Desktop, X Forwarding, and Automation

  • Major recurring complaint: Wayland’s remote/automation story.
    • People rely on X11 features like x11vnc, x0vncserver, SSH X forwarding, XFakeEvent, xdotool, and global input spoofing for:
      • Full desktop control of remote relatives.
      • Thin‑client/X‑forwarded EDA/CAD workflows on compute servers.
      • Accessibility tools and automation.
  • Wayland alternatives (PipeWire screen sharing, GNOME/KDE RDP, wayvnc, waypipe, sunshine/moonlight) exist but:
    • Often require user‑side confirmation, don’t fully match x11vnc/X forwarding, or are flaky/headless‑unfriendly.
    • Are seen as fragmented and compositor/DE‑specific.
  • Some argue “security means these things must be redesigned or restricted”; critics reply that other OSes provide them with user‑granted permissions, and Wayland is alone in refusing key capabilities.

Security, Architecture, and Features

  • Wayland’s proponents stress:
    • Stronger isolation (no global keylogging/spoofing, no arbitrary reading of other windows).
    • Cleaner architecture where compositors implement policy; missing features can be added via protocols over time.
  • Opponents argue:
    • The security model is too rigid: “no escape hatches”, long delays (e.g., pointer warping just merged, critical for CAD/EDA).
    • Architecture spreads complexity into toolkits/DEs, making debugging and a11y harder and encouraging DE‑specific hacks.
    • After ~15–20 years, lack of full feature parity and lingering rough edges (D&D, window control, automation, SSH‑like forwarding) is unacceptable.

HiDPI, Multi‑Monitor, and Performance

  • Wayland is widely praised for fractional scaling and mixed‑DPI multi‑monitor support, where users report Xorg “choking”.
  • Others counter that Xorg can do this via xrandr or DEs like XFCE, and that some Wayland setups feel laggier (e.g., terminals, window moves).
  • Nvidia is a flashpoint:
    • Some users cannot keep Wayland compositors (e.g., Sway) stable on recent Nvidia GPUs, while Xorg is fine.
    • Several respond this is primarily Nvidia’s driver fault, not Wayland’s, but affected users simply stay on X.

Xlibre Fork and Project Governance

  • Many like the idea of an actively maintained X11 fork to preserve X features Wayland discards.
  • However, Xlibre’s maintainer is heavily criticized:
    • README and Code of Conduct contain political/ideological content and dogwhistles; links are shared to prior controversial mails and rants.
    • Some see this as disqualifying for collaboration and a “red flag” for the project’s future; others insist “only the code matters”.
  • Technical doubts also surface:
    • Xorg has been reverting previous changes from this developer as harmful, which raises questions about code quality.
    • Several predict Xlibre is unlikely to gain broad traction beyond a niche.

Politics, Corporations, and Control

  • Long subthread argues whether open source is “inherently political” and whether modern “DEI/identity politics” are new or just a new label.
  • Some see Wayland (and systemd) as corporate‑driven standardization pushed by Red Hat/IBM and GNOME, with distros dropping Xorg and leaving users little choice.
  • Others reply that:
    • Developers simply stopped wanting to maintain Xorg; Wayland “wins” because people actually work on it.
    • Linux’s diversity means users who want “boring tech that just works” can choose other distros or BSDs that keep X11.

Change, Choice, and “Transition”

  • One side frames resistance to Wayland as fear of change or clinging to 1990s tech.
  • The other stresses it’s not about nostalgia but about functional regressions in real workflows.
  • Many agree in principle that:
    • Multiple options (Xorg, Wayland, forks like Xlibre) are good.
    • Problems arise when major desktops and distros force a switch before alternatives truly match existing capabilities.