Third places and neighborhood entrepreneurship (2024)

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Reactions to the Audio Companion Site

  • Some liked the idea of short audio summaries of papers, but several initially mistook the site for a spam/ad page due to its design.
  • Strong criticism that the site launched without a visible link to the original paper; in an era of AI-generated content, commenters see source links as mandatory for trust.
  • After mods changed the HN link to the NBER paper, much of the site-specific discussion became moot, but feedback emphasized: fix design, add sources, and be transparent about tooling.

Coffee Shops and Third-Place Models

  • Many commenters see coffee shops as ideal third places, with interest in:
    • Membership or “Costco-style” cafés.
    • Anti-cafés where time is charged, not drinks.
    • Late-night / Yemeni-style or Middle Eastern cafés open to 2am+.
  • Others note structural barriers in US cities: high rent, labor, regulation, and shifting chains (e.g., Starbucks) toward drive-thru and takeaway, sometimes removing seating entirely.

Causation, Methodology, and Confounders

  • Some accept the paper’s findings as evidence that third places boost local entrepreneurship, especially in lower-income areas targeted by specific Starbucks initiatives.
  • Others argue causality is unclear:
    • Starbucks may enter neighborhoods already on an economic upswing.
    • The “rejected Starbucks” control group may be systematically different due to restrictive zoning or local opposition that also suppresses entrepreneurship.
    • A third factor (general economic growth, demographics) may drive both Starbucks openings and startups.

Social Dynamics, Networking, and OPSEC

  • Debate over whether people actually network with strangers in cafés:
    • Some find the idea intrusive and culturally atypical (especially in parts of Europe).
    • Others report real-world examples of serendipitous help, collaboration, and startup talk in busy coffee hubs (e.g., Bangalore, SF).
  • A few highlight downsides: low operational security in public spaces and deliberate “idea lurkers.”

What Counts as a Third Place?

  • Starbucks as a third place is contested: some see substantial community benefits; others see profit-driven “community” rhetoric and labor issues.
  • Libraries are widely praised as high-quality, city-run third places; some describe successful library+plaza models with security and social workers present.
  • Other candidates: churches, bars, clubs, public parks, makerspaces, board game cafés, volunteer orgs, and kids’ sports scenes.
  • Discussion touches on zoning (mixed-use vs. Euclidean) and whether cities should actively mandate or subsidize seating and shared spaces.
  • Some distinguish “third places” from broader “third spaces” and even propose a “fourth place” for solitary thinking.