When DEF CON partners with the U.S. Army

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

DEF CON’s Evolution and Scale

  • Many commenters say DEF CON is no longer countercultural and hasn’t been for years; it’s now framed as “Nerd Spring Break” and a corporate-funded Vegas trip for security professionals.
  • Growth into the Las Vegas Convention Center is seen as diluting the feel: too big, disorganized, persistent AV/network problems, sparse attendance at some talks.
  • Some argue this trajectory is inevitable for any successful convention; others propose capping attendance and returning to hotels to regain focus.

Counterculture vs Corporate/Federal Presence

  • A core complaint is normalization of U.S. military and intelligence presence: recruiting pitches, Army “innovation” tracks, CISA keynotes, and even a Pwnie award mocking Google for closing an exploited Chrome bug without NSA sign-off.
  • Critics see this as hackers cheering on the same institutions historically associated with surveillance, war, and repression.
  • Defenders counter that DEF CON always mixed feds, corporates, and criminals; working with defense/intel is portrayed by some as the most realistic way to improve security “within the system.”
  • Others note you can still find strongly countercultural sub-scenes if you know where to look; the military/IC content is just one track among many.

Comparisons with CCC and Other Cons

  • CCC is repeatedly contrasted as “night and day”: volunteer-run, minimal corporate presence, hostile to the military-industrial complex, self-hosted infrastructure, 24/7 open hacking and ad‑hoc talks.
  • Some push back, saying CCC itself has become large, politicized, and no longer purely counterculture; others call it just “Euro-Defcon.”
  • Smaller camps and regional cons are mentioned as more authentically hacker/DIY, but also at risk of the same growth/commercialization dynamics.

Politics and Hacker Culture

  • Large subthread on whether hacker culture is inherently left-leaning, anarchist, or simply “don’t tell me what to do.”
  • Some say the scene (and U.S. culture) has shifted “hard left”; others argue U.S. politics and media have actually moved right while certain online subcultures became more authoritarian or intolerant of dissent.
  • COVID mandates, free speech, and attitudes toward state power are fault lines even within hacker circles.

Specific Incidents and Disputed Narratives

  • Skytalks’ move out of DEF CON and masking policies, limits on lockpicking-village fundraising, and the ejection of Jeremy Hammond are cited as symbols of change; details are contested and sometimes unclear.
  • Overall mood: nostalgia for a scrappier, less aligned DEF CON, mixed with recognition that defense ties and institutionalization have deep, longstanding roots.