Not paying with cash

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Cash vs. Cards as Infrastructure & Resilience

  • Several stories highlight system fragility: a single fiber cut in a US town and a nationwide Interac outage in Canada left card payments unusable; only cash worked.
  • Others argue the future is more redundancy (e.g., satellite backup, offline-capable terminals, manual imprints, card-not-present later) rather than reverting to cash.

Anonymous / Offline Digital Cash (Japan & Elsewhere)

  • Japanese Suica/Pasmo-style IC cards are praised: anonymous, easy to obtain with cash, work offline, and very fast.
  • Technical debate around double-spend: smartcards use strong authentication and rapid reconciliation; fraud exists but is limited and acceptable at small transaction sizes.
  • Taiwan’s EasyCard reportedly has known double-spend vulnerabilities that are not fully fixed.
  • Foreigners face friction using mobile Suica on Android (FeliCa licensing, device SKUs), while iPhones “just work.” Workarounds involve physical cards, cash-only top-ups, and sometimes card issuer quirks.
  • Despite rising “cashless” use in Japan, anonymous offline IC payments are still not accepted everywhere, and newer app-based systems tend to be more trackable and ad-driven.

Privacy, Tracking, and Regulation

  • Strong thread insisting cash is essential for privacy and for people excluded from banking; worry about Visa/Mastercard/Apple/Google gaining veto power over transactions.
  • Others note even “anonymous” digital systems need good operational security; cash is simpler for real anonymity.
  • Examples show retailers linking card numbers to customer profiles/purchase histories; tokenized phone payments mitigate this.
  • Some jurisdictions legally require merchants to accept cash; elsewhere “card-only” policies are common and controversial.

Merchant Costs and Economics

  • Disagreement over whether cash or cards are cheaper to accept:
    • Pro-card side cites labor to count cash, end-of-day reconciliation, theft, armored transport, and bank cash-deposit fees.
    • Pro-cash side notes interchange as a major ongoing cost and cites data suggesting cash is cheapest for small transactions.
  • Cash discounts, card surcharges, and “cash as marketing expense” appear in practice; some nonprofits and shops want to drop cash entirely for admin reasons.

Rewards, Inequality, and Overspending

  • Many card users focus on rewards (cashback, miles, “free” travel). Several describe earning thousands over years.
  • Counterpoint: rewards are funded by merchant fees baked into prices, so non-reward users and cash payers effectively subsidize higher-income card optimizers.
  • In the US, rich rewards are common; in much of Europe, capped fees mean modest or no rewards.
  • Multiple comments argue credit makes people spend more and hide the pain of purchases; debit or cash makes spending feel more “real.” Others say careful users can capture rewards without carrying balances.

Security, Fraud, and Hygiene

  • Several recount repeated card fraud from skimming or breaches; they prefer limiting card use or specific cards.
  • Discussion of magstripe vs chip-and-PIN: signing is seen as weak “security theater,” PIN-verified chips far stronger.
  • Some argue physical robbery risk is low and cash losses are capped by what you carry, whereas data breaches expose far larger amounts.
  • Claims that cash is “disgusting” are challenged with studies: shared terminals and wearables can be dirtier than notes or coins; contactless-only is most hygienic if no shared touch screen.

Everyday Convenience, Budgeting, and Social Norms

  • Pro-card: easier budgeting with transaction histories, no ATM trips, protection and reversibility, and integration with apps. In some countries (e.g., Australia, India) tap or mobile pay is nearly universal.
  • Pro-cash: better spending awareness, simpler splitting of bills and tipping (especially to avoid aggressive POS tip prompts), and small psychological rewards from holding physical money.
  • Some people carry cash deliberately to resist “no cash” norms and keep the option alive for others.

Denominations and Physical Cash Design

  • Complaints that existing denominations (e.g., US) are too small relative to prices; calls for larger bills and phasing out low-value coins.
  • Others note large bills can trigger suspicion and de facto barriers to using them.

Crypto and Digital-Cash Alternatives

  • A few suggest Bitcoin Lightning or Monero as “best of both worlds” (digital yet private), but others note crypto is treated as speculative asset, not everyday money, and that real-world anonymity still demands discipline.