US cities pay too much for buses

Industrial Policy, Offshoring, and “Buy America”

• One camp argues US agencies should exploit global competition: foreign buses (esp. from China/Europe) are cheaper, better engineered, and benefit from scale and automation.
• Others insist public money shouldn’t underwrite foreign economies or displace domestic union jobs, and treat bus manufacturing as strategically adjacent to other heavy vehicle production (trucks, tanks, aircraft).
• Critics of protectionism say it traps the US with small, inefficient producers, while defenders see it as necessary for resilience and wartime surge capacity.
• Several note Chinese prices likely reflect a mix of cheap labor, state subsidies, and more advanced manufacturing—not just “dirty” practices.

Competition, Procurement, and Customization

• Repeated theme: agencies over‑specify “unique” buses (interiors, colors, options), shattering economies of scale and raising per‑unit cost.
• Small, fragmented orders (10–20 buses at a time) contrast with Singapore‑style orders of hundreds, which yield far lower prices.
• Commenters disagree whether “topography/climate needs” justify this; many say differences are mostly cosmetic.
• Some suspect corruption or at least weak negotiation; others, plain principal‑agent failure: local buyers only pay ~20% (rest is federal), so price pressure is muted.

Public vs Private Sector, Corruption, and Incentives

• Debate over whether government is inherently bloated vs. just structurally bad at dealing with hard‑nosed private vendors.
• Public‑private arrangements are seen as lopsided: private firms optimize profit; agencies optimize rules‑compliance and budget size, not cost.
• Parallel examples: overpriced fire trucks, USPS vehicles, even bespoke trash cans, all framed as symptoms of the same contracting pathologies and PE roll‑ups.

Technology Choices: Diesel, CNG, Electric, Hydrogen

• Broad agreement that diesel’s long‑term future is weak: worse urban air quality and (often) higher operating cost than battery‑electric.
• Some report much better ride quality and lower energy cost for electric buses; others note reliability problems with early US vendors (e.g., Proterra).
• Hydrogen fuel‑cell buses are criticized as expensive experiments that shouldn’t be funded solely out of local service budgets.

Standardization, International Comparisons, and Alternatives

• China’s success is attributed to standardized rolling stock, big centralized orders, and streamlined permitting; contrasted with US NIMBYism and permitting gridlock.
• Several suggest a national standard bus (with minimal option sets) and bulk federal procurement, with cities paying extra for any deviations.
• Others question whether large 40‑ft buses are right at low ridership, suggesting more frequent, smaller vehicles or on‑demand vans—though pilots often prove costly.