PHP 8.5

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Overall sentiment on PHP 8.5

  • Many see 8.5 as more about stability, maturity, and incremental polish than exciting new capabilities.
  • Some are disappointed there’s still no “true async” story in core PHP; others value that the language evolves cautiously and remains largely reliable across versions.

Reputation, community, and real‑world usage

  • Several comments push back on “PHP shame,” noting that lots of well‑maintained, popular sites and self‑hosted apps (wikis, forums, radio software, etc.) are built on PHP.
  • There’s a perception that PHP jobs often pay less and involve older, messy codebases, but also that modern Laravel/Symfony work can be solid and enjoyable.

Safety, “inviting bad code,” and legacy baggage

  • Debate over whether PHP uniquely “invites” bad practices versus just allowing them, like any language.
  • Historical issues: weak typing surprises, insecure tutorials, easy SQL injection, and language features that prioritized “keep running and print something” over failing fast.
  • Others argue most of this is “old PHP”; with modern features and strict modes, much can be mitigated.

New features, complexity, and readability

  • 8.5 features (pipe operator, array_first/array_last, closures in const expressions, URI extension) divide opinion:
    • Supporters like the improved ergonomics, composability, and debugging.
    • Critics see “syntax sugar” that adds alternative styles, encourages bikeshedding, and can make codebases harder to read.
  • Some feel recent additions (match, enums, attributes, pipes) are half‑baked or overly clever; others show examples where newer syntax significantly reduces boilerplate.

Standard library, typing, and design trade‑offs

  • Strong criticism of the inconsistent stdlib, lingering Unicode pain (e.g. multibyte handling), and lack of a modern, coherent core API.
  • Discussion of generics: widely desired, but described as hard/expensive to implement given PHP’s runtime type system; tools and comment‑based annotations partially fill the gap.

Evolution, compatibility, and ecosystems

  • PHP is praised for handling major transitions (5.x→7→8) with limited breakage and good deprecation paths.
  • Some worry that constant feature accretion makes re‑entry hard for lapsed developers, but others say you can still write simple “PHP 5‑style” code that runs fine today.
  • For new projects, opinions split: some would gladly choose modern PHP+Laravel; others see better options elsewhere, especially around async/concurrency.