Don't Download Apps

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Privacy Concerns: Apps, Phone Numbers, and Tracking

  • Many commenters avoid installing vendor/restaurant apps and refuse giving real phone numbers or emails at checkout, seeing them as tracking IDs akin to Social Security numbers.
  • Loyalty programs tied to phone numbers are viewed as pervasive and manipulative; people share fake or old numbers as a workaround.
  • Several report staff trying to take their phone to “set up the app,” which they see as reckless from a security perspective.

Apps vs Websites: Who Tracks More?

  • One camp argues native apps are more dangerous: broader APIs (contacts, sensors, Bluetooth, etc.), persistent identity, ad SDKs, and potential OS or SDK bugs enabling location and behavioral tracking beyond explicit permissions.
  • Another camp counters that modern OS permission models and sandboxes limit apps, while web APIs (geolocation, accelerometer, Bluetooth, fingerprinting) plus cross-site tracking and cookies make browsers equally or more invasive.
  • There’s debate over whether apps can track location without permission; some cite research/SDK exploits, others say this still hinges on OS-level bugs, not normal behavior.
  • VPNs, DNS filters, and app firewalls (NetGuard, RethinkDNS, Pi-hole, NextDNS) are widely recommended, but limitations, leaks, and usability trade‑offs are noted.

PWAs, Broken Mobile Web, and Engagement

  • Many use PWAs or mobile web versions for social media and services, partly because they’re worse experiences and thus reduce addictive usage.
  • Strong suspicion that large companies intentionally cripple mobile web (e.g., Uber, Instagram, Reddit, Messenger) to funnel users into apps, sometimes just WebView wrappers with more device access.
  • Others note that some PWAs (Mastodon, Phanpy, Photoprism) can be excellent, but browser and platform vendors keep tightening the screws on PWAs.

Payments, Loyalty, and Surveillance/Price Discrimination

  • Stories of Amazon Fresh and Walmart preferring physical cards or proprietary wallets over Apple Pay are interpreted as attempts to maximize tracking and avoid Apple’s fee/control.
  • Disagreement over “surveillance pricing”:
    • Critics believe app-linked identity + data brokers + payment data will enable individualized dynamic pricing (e.g., knowing pay cycles, habits).
    • Skeptics say apps are mostly modern coupon books/loyalty programs; price discrimination already existed via paper coupons and email lists, and there are legal limits on financial-data sharing.

Binding Arbitration and Terms of Service

  • Big concern that installing apps or using online services silently enrolls users into binding arbitration and class‑action waivers, potentially affecting offline harms (Disney example).
  • Others argue this problem is not app-specific; similar clauses apply across websites and many services, and only legislation can fix it.

Defensive Practices and Structural Limits

  • Common personal strategies: minimal app sets (banking, messaging, browser), PWAs for “optional” services, deep-sleeping or firewalling most apps, using alternative frontends (e.g., Friendly Social Browser, NewPipe), and sometimes refusing smartphones entirely.
  • Several commenters doubt “vote with your wallet” will work against large platforms and call for strong regulation (limits on tracking-for-service, large fines, stricter control of arbitration).