Berlin Approves New Expansion of Police Surveillance Powers
Liberty, Liberalism, and Historical Lessons
- Several comments frame this as part of a long arc: classical liberalism and broad freedoms are seen as a rare, fragile historical exception that can easily regress.
- Others counter that liberal democracy and human-rights-based orders are currently the global norm and demonstrably successful; treating them as “dreams” is seen as internalizing anti-freedom rhetoric.
- Some adopt a pessimistic stance: keep fighting for liberty, but organize your life assuming things will keep getting worse and state power will grow.
Scope and Mechanics of the New Powers
- Key elements highlighted: state-developed spyware (“trojans”) to intercept encrypted communication; secret entry into homes if remote deployment fails; bodycams activated in homes when officers perceive risk to life or limb.
- A central unresolved question: are these always court-ordered, or can they be used without warrants? The linked article doesn’t mention “warrant,” which some find worrying and others call a reporting gap.
Security, Terrorism, and Foreign Threats
- Supporters emphasize real terror attacks and ongoing plots in Germany, plus aggressive foreign intelligence and “hybrid warfare” operations, arguing Europe can’t afford 2000s-style idealism.
- Critics respond that the terror threat is serious but not “existential,” and doesn’t justify extraordinary erosion of rights.
Slippery Slope and Turnkey Totalitarianism
- Many fear a familiar pattern: measures start for “extremist terrorism,” then expand to serious crime, then petty offenses, then political dissent.
- Some explicitly invoke historical German surveillance states and “turnkey totalitarianism,” warning that the same tools will be used by future illiberal governments and against those first frightened into accepting them.
- A minority dismiss slippery-slope worries as overblown but are challenged with examples of intelligence overreach and mission creep.
Legal Culture: Germany vs US
- One thread notes Germany’s traditional “inviolability of the home” and strict privacy norms; this kind of secret home entry to plant bugs was historically taboo.
- Others note the US has long allowed covert entries and technical surveillance with judicial orders, but emphasize system differences (e.g., no German-style exclusionary rule).
German Political and Cultural Context
- Some blame Berlin’s electorate for voting in a more conservative government after years of left rule; others argue Berlin is “drowning in crime” and welcome tougher policing.
- A side discussion portrays German culture as highly rule-bound and deferential to procedure, which some see as fertile ground for authoritarianism, though Germans in the thread dispute how universal that is.
Broader Anxiety and Systemic Pressures
- Several comments tie expanded surveillance to elite fear: sovereign debt crises, stagnant growth, climate breakdown, wars in Europe, rising protests, and potential revolutionary anger.
- The idea is that as power structures feel more precarious, they seek stronger tools to preempt unrest.
Repression, Speech, and Banking
- Some claim a wider European drift toward illiberal practices: debanking of disfavored activists, harsh policing of protests, and speech restrictions around Russia and Israel.
- They argue that once labeled (e.g., “Putin sympathizer” or “antisemite”), individuals can be targeted with both state force and private-sector sanctions.