Migrating to the EU

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Motivations for moving to EU / non‑US services

  • Many want to reduce dependence on US Big Tech for geopolitical, privacy, and economic reasons, even if they don’t have a strong personal threat model.
  • Some specifically want to support European markets to avoid future “enshittification” and concentration of power.
  • A few are aiming for non‑US and non‑EU providers, seeing both blocs as overreaching; others counter that everywhere has problems, so it’s about “better, not perfect.”

Email providers and migration strategies

  • Fastmail is widely praised (UI, reliability), but concerns include US hosting, Australian 5‑Eyes membership, and lack of EU servers.
  • Popular EU/EEA alternatives mentioned: Proton (CH), Tuta, mailbox.org, Migadu, Startmail, Runbox, Zoho (Indian company with EU hosting), Infomaniak, self‑hosted Mailcow/Mox.
  • Specific pain points: Proton’s limited calendar sharing and alias reply behavior; Migadu’s outgoing‑mail tier gaps; mailbox.org’s alias limits and earlier spoofing concerns; Runbox delays and outages.
  • Several describe gradual Gmail exits: forward mail, use own domain, change logins one by one, and treat it as a year‑long process. Using a personal domain is repeatedly recommended to de‑couple identity from providers.

Git hosting and code forges

  • Codeberg (Forgejo‑based) is popular but officially for FOSS; some use it for private/non‑FOSS despite that. Uptime is considered weak.
  • Alternatives: self‑hosted Forgejo/Gitea/GitLab/gitolite, SourceHut, commercial EU GitLab hosting, smaller hosts (lcube, tangled.org, worktree, codefloe).
  • Several insist they don’t want to self‑host; others respond with minimal “bare git over SSH” or Dockerized forges, causing some friction.

Cloud, storage, and ancillary services

  • Hetzner is heavily recommended; also netcup, OVH, Scaleway, Uberspace, Contabo, Jottacloud, pCloud, Hetzner Storage Share (managed Nextcloud).
  • Mullvad VPN is praised (gift cards, no accounts), with some debate about whether “no logs” can ever be proven.
  • Alternatives for search and maps: Ecosia, Qwant, Uruky, self‑hosted SearxNG, OpenStreetMap clients; opinions vary on quality vs Google.

Privacy, surveillance, and law (EU vs US and others)

  • Large subthread debates whether EU hosting is actually safer:
    • Pro‑EU side: GDPR, stronger data‑protection norms, less corporate surveillance, somewhat better rule of law.
    • Skeptical side: prosecutor/police‑issued warrants, EIO/EAW cross‑border orders, chat‑control proposals, blasphemy/hate‑speech laws, and limited power of ECHR rulings.
    • Many note US issues: NSA, CLOUD Act, weak privacy law, civil forfeiture, police killings, political instability, OpenAI–government surveillance concerns.
  • Consensus: there is no perfect jurisdiction; you choose among imperfect options and threat models.

Self‑hosting vs relying on providers

  • Some run nearly everything themselves (mail, git, calendars, photos, DNS, VPN, RSS) on EU VPSes; they report modest cost but ongoing maintenance.
  • Others prefer paying GitHub/hosted mail to avoid admin burden and deliverability headaches, especially for email reputation.

Critiques and skepticism of the “migrate to EU” push

  • Several see many such posts as trend‑driven and light on real trade‑offs or concrete experience with alternatives.
  • Some argue switching providers does little against state‑level threats and mainly adds friction, while others stress it still reduces corporate abuse and diversifies risk.