Bird brains (2023)
Research on bird, octopus, and mammal brains is challenging the idea that intelligence scales simply with total neuron count, highlighting instead forebrain neurons, connectivity, density, and evolutionary trade‑offs like weight and lifespan. Commenters compare human, avian, and cephalopod cognition, debate what counts as “language” in parrots, and note how species‑specific senses (like smell in dogs) complicate standard tests such as the mirror test. Ethical questions about keeping intelligent animals—especially parrots and cats—in confined human environments also feature prominently.
Neuron Counts, Brain Architecture, and Intelligence
- Several comments dispute “more neurons = more intelligence” as too simplistic.
- Brain density, connectivity, and specialization are emphasized over raw count.
- Forebrain neuron count is suggested as a better proxy for complex cognition; by that metric humans are near the top, with orcas above.
- Birds are described as highly optimized for low mass and possibly smaller genomes, allowing dense, efficient brains.
Octopus and Other Non‑Avian Intelligence
- Octopuses are highlighted as especially remarkable: rapid solo learning, distributed “mini-brains” in eyes and arms, and possible theory of mind.
- Lack of parenting and very short lifespans make their cognitive achievements seem even more striking; some speculate they might surpass humans individually under fair comparisons.
- Nerve conduction in cephalopods is noted as slower due to lack of myelin, not neuron count.
Language, Mimicry, and Parrots
- Debate over whether parrots “talk” or merely mimic.
- Evidence cited of parrots using words contextually (e.g., commenting after biting, labeling objects, expressing desires).
- A famous African grey case is discussed; some see genuine abstraction, others argue the emotional “last words” story is over-embellished or misleading.
Evolution, Timescales, and Selection Pressures
- Disagreement over claims that birds had “more time to evolve”; counterpoint that all lineages are equally old.
- Some argue shorter generation times plus strong selection (e.g., for flight and low weight) can accelerate adaptation.
- Discussion touches on the fuzziness of “species” and how that complicates such comparisons.
Measuring Animal Intelligence
- Attempts to find a general intelligence factor (“g”) in birds have mixed results; experiments are hard to design around each species’ ecology and motivation.
- Mirror test is questioned as a universal self-awareness metric; dogs and others may rely more on smell. Ants allegedly passing mirror tests add to the confusion.
Pets, Ethics, and Behavior Anecdotes
- Strong ethical debate about keeping birds in cages; some see it as cruel confinement, others say many birds treat cages as safe “homes” when doors are open.
- Similar concerns raised about cats and small, indoor-only environments, balanced by safety arguments.
- Multiple vivid anecdotes of keas, cockatoos, magpies, and parrots solving problems, coordinating socially, and interacting richly with humans.
AI Analogies
- Commenters compare parrots and LLMs (“stochastic parrots”), with some arguing current AI already exceeds many animals on many cognitive tasks, others noting animals’ superior embodied skills (navigation, foraging).
- One thread imagines robots struggling to evolve “biological AGI,” misled by simple metrics like neuron count.