Porsche’s Numbers and Product Mix
- Commenters note the headline hides weak fundamentals: global sales -10% YoY, China -26% YoY. Several see this as part of a broader German premium-car slump.
- “Electrified” is parsed as BEVs + PHEVs; about two-thirds of Porsche’s electrified sales are BEVs, one-third PHEVs.
- Some point out the “electrified beat pure gas” stat is partly driven by Porsche discontinuing key ICE models (e.g. Macan, 718) in Europe and supply gaps caused by EU cybersecurity regulations.
- There’s disagreement on whether Porsche’s EV strategy is succeeding: some praise early moves like Taycan, others highlight losses, rolled‑back BEV plans, high prices, and poor China performance.
Porsche Brand, EVs, and Enthusiast Identity
- Many argue Porsche’s core appeal is “driver’s cars” (911, 718), visceral ICE sound and feel; EV SUVs and sedans are seen as bland, heavy and badge‑driven.
- Others counter that build quality, chassis tuning, and high‑speed stability remain Porsche strengths regardless of powertrain.
- Concern that luxury EVs become indistinguishable appliances: harder for brands like Porsche to differentiate when everyone has instant torque and big screens.
- Some call for Porsche to “rip off the band‑aid” and build uncompromising EV sports cars rather than conservative SUV/crossover products.
Hybrids vs BEVs and the “Electrified” Category
- Debate over whether hybrids (especially PHEVs) are genuine progress or “the worst of both worlds” (weight, complexity, maintenance).
- Toyota is a major fault line: critics say it’s behind on EVs; defenders argue its full‑hybrid tech is mature, efficient, and aligns with long‑term reliability.
- Some markets (e.g. Finland, UK) encourage PHEVs via tax rules, leading to “tax‑evasion hybrids” that owners rarely plug in.
- Several posters argue full EVs are superior long‑term (fewer moving parts, less maintenance, home charging); others stress hybrids are currently more practical for renters, rural drivers, and regions with poor charging.
Charging, Practicality, and User Experience
- Strong split between owners (who often find EVs vastly more convenient due to home charging) and renters/first‑time users (who find public charging fragmented, app‑heavy and stressful).
- Lack of garages, curbside infrastructure, and workplace chargers is a recurring barrier, especially in dense European cities and for US renters.
- Range anxiety versus “fuel station anxiety” is discussed: some predict a future where dwindling gas stations make ICE ownership inconvenient; others cite Norway as a test case but note ICE still dominates the fleet.
China’s Rise as an Automotive Power
- Many see Porsche’s China decline and China’s explosive EV output as evidence China is already the premier manufacturing power, especially in EVs.
- Quality perceptions are contested: some still distrust “Made in China”; others argue Chinese cars (BYD, Xiaomi, etc.) are now at or above Western quality, especially relative to price, echoing past Japan/Korea trajectories.
- Features and value: Chinese EVs are praised for rich standard equipment (ADAS, software, interiors, comfort features) at about half the price of European equivalents.
- Skeptics worry about long‑term parts availability, EV battery life, and geopolitical risk (dependence on an authoritarian rival, potential remote disablement), plus human‑rights concerns in Chinese supply chains.
Protectionism, Tariffs, and Policy
- US tariffs blocking Chinese EVs are viewed by some as necessary industrial policy; by others as anti‑consumer corporate welfare propping up weak domestic makers and Tesla.
- Comparisons are drawn with Japan’s rise, the Plaza Accord, and targeted industrial strategies in East Asia; several argue the West hollowed out manufacturing while China built deep capabilities.
- Some note Canada’s more open stance to Chinese EVs and warn that US/EU protectionism could backfire by slowing domestic innovation.
German and Japanese vs Chinese and Other Brands
- Multiple posters describe German brands (Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW) as having lost their reliability edge and being over‑engineered, subscription‑riddled, and expensive to maintain.
- Others defend German cars as still offering superior dynamics and craftsmanship, especially at the high end, while acknowledging serious software and infotainment weaknesses.
- Japanese brands are widely trusted for reliability and low running costs; EV‑lag is seen as their risk factor.
- Chinese, Korean, and to some extent US upstarts are framed as seizing the EV opportunity while legacy US/EU/JP makers struggle with stranded ICE assets and cultural inertia.
EV Technology, Longevity, and Environment
- Some argue modern EVs will be short‑lived due to battery costs and proprietary ecosystems; others claim non‑battery components are extremely durable and future EVs will outlast ICE once battery tech stabilizes.
- Environmental debate: one side emphasizes the need to eliminate tailpipe emissions; another notes cars are only part of emissions and questions the focus on replacing small, efficient ICEs versus addressing housing and power.
- Concerns surface about EV weight, tire particulate pollution, and the death of DIY car culture and small repair shops due to closed, software‑locked systems.
Cultural and Lifestyle Shifts
- Several comment on declining “car enthusiast” culture: cars becoming appliances, younger generations more open to EVs or to not owning cars at all.
- Analogies to horses as a luxury hobby and ICE sports cars becoming niche “nostalgia” objects.
- A few describe living car‑free in cities and seeing long leisure drives as a past habit, suggesting that for many, debates over Porsche ICE vs EV may be increasingly niche.