Fishing for oil and meat drives defaunation of deepwater sharks and rays

Use of Shark Livers and Bycatch

• Many are appalled that shark livers are used for biodiesel, likening it to historic whaling repackaged as “green.”
• A cited article’s framing of dead bycatch as a “unique opportunity” is seen as morally grotesque.
• Disagreement:
  • One side says using already-dead bycatch is better than wasting it.
  • Others argue monetizing bycatch creates incentives to catch more sharks and should instead be punished or strongly reduced, as with dolphins.

Capitalism, Meaning, and “Waste Products”

• Some criticize a worldview where life’s value is tied to producing marketable products.
• Debate compares “work or starve” dynamics under capitalism vs communism, with conflicting claims about which system better guarantees work and living standards.
• Concern that capitalism will always push toward maximizing profit, regardless of ecological damage.

Greenwashing, Biofuels, and Meat Alternatives

• Shark-liver biodiesel is seen as greenwashing: a new supply chain that will inevitably demand more sharks.
• Analogies to “green” alternatives that may be worse (e.g., microplastic leather, deforesting for meat alternatives).
• Intense debate on beef vs plant-based foods:
  • Some stress that meat is inherently land- and resource-inefficient, central to Amazon deforestation and climate impacts.
  • Others argue “it’s not cow but how,” pointing to grass-fed systems, local beef, and regenerative agriculture.
  • Counterpoints note grass-fed is a tiny share globally and cannot scale to current consumption.

Oceans, Overfishing, and Governance

• Broad concern over cumulative ocean harms: overfishing, bycatch, bottom trawling, warming, acidification, runoff, plastics, and noise.
• Framed as a classic tragedy of the commons with weak enforcement and powerful commercial interests.
• Some highlight monitoring initiatives; others are pessimistic about global policy and even suggest drastic enforcement (e.g., sinking boats).

Population, Consumption, and Degrowth

• Some argue population should stabilize or decline via voluntary means (contraception, women’s education).
• Others emphasize that per-capita consumption (especially meat) is the binding constraint.
• Degrowth is highly contentious: portrayed by some as necessary (especially in the West), by others as harmful “suicide pact” likely to hurt the vulnerable.

Veganism, Agriculture, and Activism

• Several see veganism as a strong, immediate lever; others say it cannot by itself solve soil degradation, fertilizer dependence, or complex food-system economics.
• Disagreement over fake meats’ efficiency vs livestock.
• Activism discussion splits between:
  • Personal choices (diet) and awareness campaigns.
  • Systemic change via political organizing.
  • Fringe suggestions of violence, which others reject as counterproductive.

Ecological and Cultural Side Notes

• Whale falls and “marine snow” mentioned as key deep-sea processes, tying whale declines to broader biodiversity impacts.
• Historical context: from whaling-era collapse to fears that large-scale fishing may one day be outlawed.
• Shark-cartilage supplements mocked as pseudoscience exploiting myths about shark cancer resistance.