The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

Origins of Yiddish and Knaanic

• Some mention Knaanic (a Judeo-Slavic language based on Old Czech) as an earlier Jewish European language, but others argue it is not ancestral to Yiddish and is generally considered irrelevant to Yiddish’s origin.
• A contested fringe theory is cited that Eastern Yiddish descends from Jewish Slavic languages (like Knaanic) and that Western Yiddish derives from Eastern; commenters note this is widely rejected in the field.
• Mainstream view in the thread: Yiddish arose as a Germanic variety spoken by Jewish communities in Central Europe that later moved east, diverging over centuries like any other language, not as a consciously “created” language.

Germanic vs Slavic Nature of Yiddish

• Multiple multilingual commenters say Yiddish is obviously Germanic: to German and Dutch speakers it feels like a German dialect with extra vocabulary.
• Others note Eastern Yiddish has stronger Slavic influence (lexicon and substrate), but still fundamentally Germanic.
• One commenter reports testing that Yiddish sounds like a different German dialect to alemannic speakers. Another notes high mutual intelligibility for Viennese and other German speakers.

Jewish Ethnic Origins and Genetics

• Some assert Ashkenazi Jews are a mix of Levantine, Southern European, and Slavic ancestry; others highlight that genetic estimates vary and should not be equated directly with “ethnicity.”
• There is discussion of a fringe “Iranian/Scythian” origin theory for Ashkenazim tied to Slavic/Iranian interactions; commenters emphasize lack of evidence for large-scale conversions and note its political and sometimes antisemitic misuse.
• Several participants criticize consumer DNA ancestry methods (clustering, PCA) as noisy and potentially “junk science,” while others say they still show broad relatedness patterns.

Language, Identity, and Dialect vs Language

• Recurrent debate over whether Yiddish is a “dialect of German” or a distinct language; commenters stress that calling it “just a dialect” is historically and culturally diminishing, even if it is clearly Germanic.
• Analogy is drawn to Hindi/Urdu and to closely related European language pairs where mutual intelligibility exists but separate identities matter.
• Commenters note that much Ashkenazi “Jewish culture” in Europe and the US is heavily shaped by German and Central European culture, while also being distinct.

Other Jewish Languages and Archaic Features

• Ladino (Judeo‑Spanish) is mentioned as closely related to older forms of Spanish; Yiddish and Ladino are described as preserving “frozen-in-time” features relative to later standardization in German and Spanish.
• Historical separation and limited integration are suggested as reasons archaic features persist.

Modern Usage: Haredim, Yiddish, and Hebrew

• A linked article and comments describe Yiddish as a key language of many ultra‑orthodox Jews, binding communities and partially separating them from surrounding societies, including in Israel.
• Some say most Israeli Haredim speak Hebrew as a primary language and many do not speak Yiddish; others emphasize that Haredim certainly know Hebrew well from religious study.
• Discussion touches on recent Israeli court rulings on conscription of Haredim and how Yiddish/Hebrew proficiency may affect integration into the army.

Miscellaneous Linguistic Notes

• Examples are given of German–Yiddish mutual comprehension in everyday encounters and film screenings.
• Shibboleths and accent differences (e.g., between Yiddish and Polish, or between various Germanic accents) are discussed as life-and-death identifiers in wartime and as tools to infer someone’s first language.