Does veganism have an ultra-processing problem?

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Definition of “Ultra-Processed”

  • Many commenters argue the NOVA/FAO definitions are vague, circular, or “industrial-production-is-bad” in disguise.
  • Critiques:
    • Criteria like “ingredients home cooks don’t use” or “additives for appeal” are seen as scientifically weak.
    • Definitions risk labeling ordinary cooking (thickeners, emulsifiers, starch, roux, reductions) as “ultra-processed.”
    • The category mixes very different products: tofu and unsweetened soymilk vs Oreos and potato chips.
  • Defenders say fuzziness is normal in complex sciences and categories like processing level are still useful for large-scale epidemiology.

Health Impact and Evidence

  • One camp: “ultra-processed” is a scare term; real issue is specific nutrients (e.g., low fiber, high sugar/fat) and hyperpalatability.
  • Others point to epidemiological work (Monteiro, “Ultra-Processed People”, Lancet CVD paper) as evidence UPF intake correlates with worse health.
  • NIH metabolic-ward study is discussed: people on UPF diets ate ~500 kcal/day more and gained weight; debate over whether protein content vs palatability drives this.
  • Several note that current data are observational, confounded, and yield only “partial answers,” not physics-level certainty.

Vegan/Plant-Based Diets and UPFs

  • Some vegans describe diets based almost entirely on fresh produce, grains, beans, and home cooking, arguing UPF isn’t inherent to veganism.
  • Cited data: vegetarians and vegans consume somewhat more UPFs by energy share than meat eaters but also more “healthy” foods overall; absolute differences are small.
  • Concern: “plant-sourced UPFs” are linked to higher CVD risk, but it’s unclear whether the specific UPFs vegans eat (e.g., tofu, soymilk) are the harmful subset.
  • Disagreement on “meat substitutes”: some say veg*ns don’t need or crave them; others report strong cravings and frequent use of fake meats.

Protein, Supplements, and “Ultra-Processed” Status

  • Discussion of achieving adequate protein on vegan diets via beans, grains, lentils, seeds, and sometimes protein powders (pea, rice).
  • Debate over “complete proteins” and combining plant sources.
  • Some note protein isolates and powders are clearly processed but not necessarily harmful; additives (sweeteners, flavors) are the main concern.

Broader Food-System and Practical Themes

  • Several argue the real divide is:
    • Class 1: separation/preservation processes (milling, oil extraction, drying) – often necessary and benign.
    • Class 2: industrial recombination into hyperpalatable, additive-heavy products – where health concerns cluster.
  • Emphasis on: cooking from raw ingredients, fiber-rich foods, variety over time, and traditional largely plant-based cuisines (e.g., in Asia) as workable low-UPF models.
  • Some propose improved labeling, including “antinutrition” info (oxalates, purines, safe upper intakes).
  • Meta-critique: the BBC piece is seen as loosely assembled and the HN title as misrepresenting the article’s actual focus.