The correct amount of ads is zero

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Paywalled news sites and streaming services are increasingly charging subscriptions while still showing ads, raising questions about what paying users should reasonably expect. Commenters contrast traditional print advertising with today’s invasive, data-driven adtech, debate whether any ads are acceptable in paid products, and argue over the ethics of blocking ads versus the economic realities of running media businesses. Alternative funding ideas such as micropayments, platform bundles, and government‑ or patron‑supported models surface, but none emerge as an obvious replacement for the current ad‑subsidized web.

Expectations for Paid Services

  • Many argue that if you pay money, the correct number of ads is zero; paying and still seeing ads feels like “double dipping.”
  • Others note this has never been the norm: newspapers, magazines, cable TV, in‑flight entertainment and many streaming services charge and still show ads.
  • Some see “reduced ads” tiers (e.g., The Verge, Prime Video, X/Twitter, YouTube) as unacceptable; others see them as a realistic compromise that keeps prices down.
  • A recurring frustration: paid tiers often still include tracking, native ads, or sponsor segments, not just simple banners.

Ads, Tracking, and UX

  • Strong distinction between:
    • “Dumb” first‑party or contextual ads (static, on‑site, no tracking) that many would tolerate.
    • Behavioral ads with cross‑site tracking, data brokerage, and heavy JS, which most consider intolerable.
  • Users complain about intrusive formats: interstitials, autoplay video, popups, cookie walls, and “quick flash then disappear” content.
  • Some say they’d accept tasteful, relevant, static ads but block everything because the ecosystem is too toxic.

Economics and Business Models

  • One side: relying solely on subscriptions is risky; multiple revenue streams (including ads) make media sustainable and cheaper to users.
  • Counterpoint: if a product can’t survive on what willing users will pay, maybe it shouldn’t exist or should be publicly funded, not ad‑funded.
  • Advertisers prefer access to paying, higher‑income users; ad‑free tiers reduce the value of remaining inventory, making ad‑free pricing hard.
  • Free tiers can be cannibalized by ad‑supported ones or are untenable where per‑user costs (e.g., streaming bandwidth, licensing) are high.

Ethics of Adblocking and “Free” Content

  • Some see widespread adblocking as freeloading and “anti‑poor,” since ads let wealthier users subsidize free access.
  • Others argue it’s self‑defense against tracking, malware, and manipulation, and that users are not morally obliged to support ad‑based models.
  • Creators relying on ads report income collapsing as blockers spread; critics respond that the ad industry’s own excesses caused this backlash.

Alternatives and Reforms

  • Proposed alternatives:
    • Pure contextual/first‑party ads; clear “sponsored” labels; no third‑party scripts.
    • Platform‑level revenue pools (e.g., YouTube Premium, Apple News) or cross‑site subscription bundles.
    • True micropayments; skepticism that they scale, plus concerns that the payment provider becomes another data broker.
    • Public or tax‑funded journalism; stronger regulation against surveillance ads and deceptive native advertising.

Broader Critiques of Advertising

  • Several commenters see advertising as inherently manipulative and socially corrosive: creating artificial desires, reinforcing stereotypes, and warping media incentives.
  • Others are pragmatic: advertising “works whether we like it or not,” can inform about useful products, and is deeply embedded in current media economics.