Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world
Germany’s surge in 155mm artillery shell and medium-caliber ammunition production, reportedly surpassing the US, prompts debate over whether this is smart rearmament or a focus on yesterday’s warfare. Commenters contrast the enduring role and low cost of artillery with the rapid rise of drones in Ukraine and elsewhere, question production metrics versus countries like North Korea and Russia, and weigh Europe’s security needs against ethical concerns about arms exports and a broader militarization of German industry.
Scope of Germany’s Ammunition Surge
- Germany is reported as the largest producer of certain ammunition types, notably 155mm shells and “medium-caliber” rounds.
- Ramp-up figures cited: artillery shells from ~70k to 1.1M/year, medium-caliber from ~800k to 4M/year.
- Main driver in the thread: supplying Ukraine, replenishing depleted European stocks, and deterring Russia.
- Some note Germany is also expanding drone cooperation with Ukraine, though still far behind leading drone producers.
Artillery vs. Drones: Is Germany “Fighting the Last War”?
- One camp argues WWII-style artillery is becoming obsolete; future wars will be dominated by drones with longer range, precision, and lower cost.
- Claims include: Ukraine now causes ~95–96% of Russian casualties via drones; over 50% of its procurement goes to drones vs ~15% to artillery; FPV “kill zones” reportedly extending 15–25 km and potentially 50–100 km.
- Some predict that once drone kill zones exceed ~30 km, tube artillery and its logistics will be unsustainable (possibly by 2027).
Counterargument: Artillery Still Essential
- Others stress artillery’s role in static frontlines and ground control; drones add, but do not replace, artillery.
- Shells are cheaper per effect, non-jammable, and can be guided with small electronics while drones do spotting.
- Even with heavy drone use, Ukraine and Russia reportedly still fire 10k+ shells per day; without artillery, Ukraine would “lose in weeks.”
- Concerns raised about “camera bias”: every drone strike is filmed and shared, inflating perceived relative impact vs unfilmed shelling.
- Artillery units use shoot-and-scoot tactics and remain hard/expensive to destroy reliably with small drones, especially under heavy electronic warfare.
Production Numbers & Doctrinal Context
- Comparisons made: Germany’s 1.1M/year vs US ~672k/year vs claims of North Korea producing ~2M 152mm shells in peacetime.
- Participants warn these comparisons may mix calibers, timeframes, and quality levels; real capacity and stockpiles remain unclear.
- US and Western underinvestment in shells since the Cold War is noted; the US doctrine leans more on airpower and navy, less on massed artillery, while states like North Korea emphasize artillery as a primary deterrent.
Ethical, Political, and Industrial Debates
- Some criticize Germany for arming Israel and contributing to high civilian casualties in Gaza/Lebanon; others dispute casualty figures and blame militant groups’ tactics.
- There is tension between calls to shift German industry into “peaceful” sectors (e.g., semiconductors) and arguments that proximity to Russia makes arms production a priority.
- Discussion of a “social stigma premium” for defense jobs: many workers avoid arms manufacturers unless paid more.