Would von Braun's Mars landers have worked?

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

Von Braun’s mid‑20th‑century concept of winged Mars landers prompts debate over whether aerodynamic flight and gliding are viable in Mars’ extremely thin atmosphere, given that lift scales with air density and Mars’ surface density is roughly 1/60 that of Earth. Commenters weigh how modern ideas like helicopters, railguns, space elevators, and in‑situ fuel production compare to pure rocket landings for sending payloads and people to and from Mars. The exchange broadens into whether large‑scale or even one‑way human colonization of Mars is technically, economically, or ethically justifiable, especially in light of current plans from companies like SpaceX and the harsh realities of long‑term survival off‑Earth.

Mars Atmosphere, Lift, and Von Braun’s Gliders

  • Several comments note Mars’ air is too thin for conventional winged landers to work as envisioned.
  • Comparisons: ~1/3 Earth gravity but ~1/60 air density → lift is much harder; likened to flying an electric helicopter near its service ceiling on Earth.
  • Debated whether lower gravity compensates; consensus in thread is that thin air dominates, making helicopter/airplane flight power‑hungry and structurally challenging.
  • Some surprise that von Braun’s designs weren’t more wrong given his overestimate of atmospheric density.

Alternative Launch and Transport Concepts

  • Discussion of railguns on Mars or the Moon to reach orbit; escape velocities cited (Earth ~11 km/s, Mars ~5 km/s, Moon ~2.5 km/s).
  • A linked Q&A suggests a Martian railgun might be possible, but accelerating payloads to several km/s is still very hard.
  • Space elevators on Mars are mentioned as more plausible than on Earth due to lower gravity.
  • Nuclear propulsion and fission-powered rockets are noted as areas of current study (with links).

Mission Architectures and Fuel

  • Speculation that von Braun would likely have favored a major Mars orbital station with propellant depots enabling powered landings.
  • Some argue current plans (e.g., Mars Direct–style ISRU) avoid hauling all return fuel from Earth by manufacturing propellant on Mars (via Sabatier or water electrolysis).
  • Others stress the difficulty of moving and storing cryogenic fuels and question economic feasibility.
  • One commenter does back-of-envelope delta‑v math suggesting a fully-fueled Starship might manage a round trip without ISRU, though this assumes ideal trajectories and no safety margins.

Humans vs Robots, One-Way Missions, and Colonies

  • Strong split between:
    • Those who see one‑way crews as reasonable pioneers or even volunteers “fine with dying on Mars.”
    • Those who see that as unethical, unnecessary given capable robots, and politically untenable.
  • Some propose sending people akin to “exile” or as alternative to prison; others object on moral grounds.
  • Skepticism that a self-sustaining Mars colony is feasible: Mars has almost no usable atmosphere, no magnetic field, low gravity, and extreme habitat requirements; likened to or worse than Antarctica.
  • Counterpoint: human history is full of harsh-frontier settlements; once costs drop, more people may go.

Timelines, Economics, and Motives

  • Timelines debated: predictions range from a return trip within a decade to not even a crewed landing in 50 years.
  • Many note that current costs with mostly disposable rockets make large-scale colonization uneconomic.
  • Some think a million-person colony is unrealistic and a vast waste; others see it as a long-term species backup or technological driver.
  • SpaceX’s track record is cited both as evidence of capability and as not directly transferable to building a sustainable off-world society.

Cultural and Media Asides

  • Recommendations for a documentary-style indie project visualizing von Braun’s Mars gliders and for the TV series “For All Mankind” (especially its early NASA-era focus).
  • A side thread criticizes an old-school webring linked from the article for hosting exclusionary and anti-feminist content.

Unclear / Open Questions

  • A late question asks what von Braun actually knew about Mars’ atmosphere in the 1950s; the thread does not provide a clear answer.