LG TVs caught spying even when offline or on standby

Original Article ↗ Hacker News Discussion ↗

LG and other smart TVs are being accused of extensive surveillance, including logging viewing habits, scanning local networks, recording audio in some modes, and queueing this data to upload once an internet connection is available. Commenters debate how much of this is confirmed versus rumor (such as mesh networking or hidden cellular modems), but generally agree that data collection for high-margin ad and profiling businesses is now central to TV makers’ economics. Many advocate treating TVs as untrusted devices—never connecting them to the internet, isolating them on separate networks, or rooting/removing wireless hardware—and call for stronger regulation or “dumb mode” products that work fully without accounts, tracking, or connectivity.

Scope of the issue

  • Commenters see LG’s behavior as part of a broader “spy TV” pattern: ACR (automatic content recognition), telemetry, ad targeting, and background activity even in standby.
  • Some note similar practices across major brands (Samsung, TCL, Hisense, Vizio), and that ads/telemetry are now moving into monitors and other devices.

Technical findings and reverse‑engineering

  • Gamers Nexus’ testing and a community firmware dump show:
    • WebOS TVs using the Alphonso SDK for ACR and data collection.
    • Audio logging in some standby modes, LAN scanning, and data queued locally for later upload when connectivity returns.
    • Wi‑Fi scanning plausibly used for geolocation and Wi‑Fi/BSSID database building.
  • Others report LG monitors triggering auto‑installed Windows “companion” apps via driver directives, used to push ads.

Mitigations and workarounds

  • Common advice: never connect the TV to the internet; use an external box (Apple TV, Linux HTPC/Kodi, PS5, etc.).
  • Stronger mitigations:
    • Put TVs on an isolated VLAN / SSID with firewall rules blocking internet.
    • Use Pi‑hole or similar DNS blocking, with the caveat that some devices use DoH or raw IPs.
    • Physically disconnect Wi‑Fi modules/antennas or use IR‑only remotes; in some LG sets this is relatively easy.
    • Rooting webOS (via community tools) to disable spyware components, though secure boot limits deeper changes.

Rumors and contested claims

  • Hotly debated: claims that TVs auto‑join open Wi‑Fi (e.g., Xfinity hotspots) or form mesh networks with neighbors’ devices.
    • Multiple commenters insist there is no evidence any TV currently does this and say it would be trivial for a skilled person to detect.
    • Others argue it’s technically possible and should be treated as a real risk, even if not yet demonstrated.
  • Similar skepticism around built‑in cellular modems: seen as technically and economically plausible, but no concrete proof in TVs today.

Business incentives

  • A cited Vizio breakdown shows hardware sold at near‑zero or negative margin, while ad/“data” business enjoys ~60% margins, explaining why surveillance and ads are so aggressively pursued.

Regulation, ToS, and consumer response

  • EU vs US:
    • Some believe GDPR meaningfully constrains behavior in Europe; others note profiling without explicit identifiers may still be compliant.
    • LG’s EU and US ToS differ; US terms more expansive about voice data and household consent.
  • Many call for:
    • A legal “dumb mode” requirement and clear labels (“requires online registration”, “captures audio”, “scans your network”).
    • A “DUMB” certification (“Don’t Upload My Bits”).
  • Practical friction:
    • Several report TVs (and some projectors) that effectively won’t function without an app, account, or ToS acceptance.
    • Others say many models still operate fine as dumb displays if you decline terms and never connect them.
    • Returns are advocated as the only real market signal, but people describe high hassle and low likelihood of mass action.