Spain expels two US spies for infiltrating secret service
Spain’s expulsion of two U.S. agents accused of recruiting members of its secret service raises questions about how far allied countries go in spying on each other and what constitutes a “normal” response. Commenters debate whether such espionage between NATO partners is routine realpolitik or a hostile act that undermines sovereignty, with some framing Spain and other EU states as effectively dependent on U.S. security and influence. The thread also branches into wider concerns about Spain’s internal political direction, media control, and perceptions of eroding democratic norms.
Spain–US intelligence ties & sovereignty
- A quoted claim that Spain almost never refuses US intelligence requests sparks debate.
- Some see this as evidence Spain is effectively a US (and partly German) “vassal,” sacrificing autonomy and possibly ignoring its own interests and laws.
- Others argue the US simply knows what it can safely ask for; Spain shares defense, crime, and terrorism intel as NATO/EU ally but the US avoids asking for politically explosive material (e.g., kompromat).
Spying among allies: normal or hostile?
- Many assert that “everyone spies on everyone,” including close allies; embassies are described as de facto intelligence hubs.
- Expelling spies under diplomatic cover (persona non grata) is seen as standard when activities become clumsy, egregious, or useful as diplomatic signaling.
- A minority insists recruiting officials inside a partner’s security services crosses a line and is closer to a hostile act or a covert attempt to subvert sovereignty.
- There is disagreement on how unusual allied expulsions are; some say common but usually quiet, others see public disclosure as the real story.
Spain’s domestic politics & “dictatorship” claims
- A long subthread debates whether Spain is sliding toward authoritarianism.
- Critics list alleged “colonization” of institutions by the governing party (prosecutor’s office, courts, public media, postal service, polling agency), controversial Covid measures, and a proposed Catalan amnesty tied to coalition math.
- Opponents call this hyperbole, noting:
- The government is a fragile minority coalition of many parties.
- Vote/seat distributions roughly track overall support.
- Pardons and amnesties have precedents under previous governments.
- Disputes arise over electoral mechanics, regional party influence, and what counts as “far right.”
Morocco, Western Sahara & US role
- Some Spanish commenters argue US backing of Morocco (including arms sales and Western Sahara stance) undermines Spanish interests in Ceuta, Melilla, Canary Islands, and gas relations with Algeria.
- Others attribute Spain’s shift on Western Sahara primarily to EU migration pressure and demographic realities, not US direction.
- Motives and causality remain contested and unclear within the thread.
EU/US power dynamics & meta-points
- Several posts frame European states, including Spain and Germany, as structurally dependent on US security and broader US-led order (often labeled “Pax Americana”).
- Others stress that while spying and pressure occur, there are also real, if mostly non-public, diplomatic pushbacks.
- A smaller thread questions whether this topic fits Hacker News, with some defending it as intellectually interesting realpolitik, even if not tech-centric.