Ask HN: What's the best car without undesirable features?

Hacker News Discussion ↗

Car enthusiasts weigh how to find a modern, reliable vehicle that avoids internet connectivity, subscription services, and touchscreen-heavy controls, while still offering features like AWD and decent fuel economy. Many recommend ~2008–2015 Japanese and European models (e.g., Subaru, Mazda, Toyota, certain Volvos/Audis) as a “sweet spot” before pervasive telemetry and connected services, yet after core safety tech like ESC became standard. The exchange also highlights trade-offs between AWD vs FWD with snow tires, long-term maintenance costs, and the growing difficulty of escaping data collection in newer cars and even components like tires.

Overall Requirements & Tradeoffs

  • OP wants a modern, compact AWD/4WD car with >30 mpg and minimal tech: no internet, subscriptions, remote anti-theft, or touchscreens.
  • Many replies argue this full combination is effectively unavailable new; “dumb” cars are mostly older or fleet/base trims.
  • Several people push back on banning touchscreens entirely, noting they rarely interact with them while driving and rely on steering-wheel buttons.

AWD vs FWD and Winter Driving

  • Strong debate:
    • Some say FWD with proper snow tires outperforms AWD/4WD with all‑seasons, and AWD is an overhyped expense and “crutch.”
    • Others with extensive snow experience insist AWD is a clear advantage, especially for getting unstuck, dealing with plow berms, hills, and unplowed roads.
  • Clarifications: snow tires mainly help deceleration and general grip; 4WD applies power to all wheels continuously, AWD is more adaptive.
  • Legal angle: some regions require snow tires or chains; AWD can reduce chain requirements.

Best Era: ~2008–2016 “Sweet Spot”

  • Many suggest mid‑late 2000s to mid‑2010s as ideal:
    • Physical buttons, minimal or no connectivity, simple head units.
    • ESC/ESP widely available from ~2008, improving safety.
  • Examples: 2010s Japanese sedans/hatches (Civic, Camry, Corolla, Mazda3), older Subarus, Volvos, Buicks, etc.

Specific Model Families Mentioned

  • AWD or winter‑friendly: Subaru Outback/Forester (pre‑2017, watch for oil/head‑gasket issues in some years), Mazda3 AWD (~2020, with rotary controller), Volvo XC70, Audi Q3/Allroad, BMW 340i xDrive, Infiniti G37x, various Tacomas/4Runners (lower mpg).
  • Simpler/older: pre‑2000 Toyotas (Camry, RAV4, 4Runner), Volvo 240, 1980s–90s Subaru wagons, 1990s–2000s compacts and sedans.
  • Fleet/base trims: Ford Fiesta, Chevy Spark/Sonic, WT trucks, some police packages; often minimal options but newer.

Connectivity, Tracking & “De‑Clouding”

  • Multiple comments assert most recent cars have telematics modules that store and later upload telemetry (e.g., Ford Sync “breadcrumbs,” dealer tools).
  • Industry insiders describe built‑in cellular modems and emerging data markets; prior to that, OBD dongles were used.
  • Workarounds discussed:
    • Choosing pre‑connectivity models (roughly pre‑2016, varies by brand).
    • Pulling fuses, disconnecting antennas or modems, or buying cars with obsolete 3G modules.
    • Some brands/dealers reportedly can disable or remove modems (e.g., certain Toyotas via button sequences, some Mercedes for a fee).
  • EU: mandatory eCall means new cars must have cellular connectivity; tire RFID is cited as another potential tracking vector.

Other Ideas

  • EV conversions of older cars seen as fun but expensive and impractical.
  • Some argue it’s better to accept that future cars will all have connectivity and subscriptions, rather than fight the trend.