How French was medieval England?
Medieval England emerges here as a strikingly bilingual society in which a French-speaking elite ruled over an English-speaking populace, leaving deep imprints on vocabulary, law, and culture that persist today. Commenters explore how Norman French, itself shaped by Norse and earlier Frankish influences, supplied many of English’s legal, culinary, and prestige terms, while everyday core words remained overwhelmingly Germanic or Norse. The exchange also touches on modern legacies of this history, such as pronunciation norms for French and Spanish loanwords, and recommends resources that trace English from Proto-Indo-European through Old and Middle English to the early modern period.
Scope of French Influence on English
- Many comments stress the deep French imprint on English, especially after 1066, but also note that core everyday vocabulary is largely Germanic/Norse.
- Legal and formal domains keep conspicuous French or Anglo‑French phrases (e.g., “cease and desist”, “aiding and abetting”), sometimes with doubled near‑synonyms.
- Some argue English speakers overemphasize the Norman shift; most medieval commoners likely continued speaking English dialects with minimal French contact.
Food, Animals, and Class
- Classic example: English distinguishes animal vs meat (pig/pork, cow/beef), reflecting Anglo‑Saxon peasants vs French‑speaking elites.
- Discussion of how French and German treat animal/meat terms differently, including fine distinctions (vache/boeuf; Rind/Kuh).
- Related curiosities: archaic “beeves”, complex cattle terms (steer, heifer, bullock) and their Germanic roots.
Compounding and Word Formation
- Extended comparison of English vs Germanic compounding:
- German/Norwegian/Swedish routinely write long compounds as single words; English more often uses spaced compounds that may later fuse (e.g., windshield).
- Debate whether this is a grammatical vs purely orthographic difference.
- Examples from Scandinavian languages and imported French roots (“biff”, “hakkebøf”) show mixing of Germanic structures with Romance loans.
Pronunciation Politics (French vs Spanish and Others)
- UK media are accused of striving for French‑like pronunciation while mangling Spanish words (e.g., “junta” with hard “j”).
- In the US, commenters see the reverse: Spanish often closer to native patterns; French words heavily anglicized.
- Some defend adaptation: loanwords naturally shift to local phonology; insisting on native‑like pronunciation can disrupt speech flow.
- Place names (Detroit, Beaulieu, NewfoundLAND, Des Moines) exemplify historical anglicization and inconsistency.
Normans, Franks, and “How French?”
- Dispute over calling the Normans “French”:
- One side: by 1066 they were French‑speaking, culturally integrated with broader French elites.
- Others: ethnically Norse origin, distinct Norman dialect and culture; “French‑speaking” more accurate than “French”.
- Broader points: Franks were originally Germanic; Gallo‑Romance gradually dominated; French itself contains substantial early Germanic influence.
Resources and Historical Linguistics
- Multiple recommendations for podcasts, videos, and scholarly dictionaries covering Old, Middle, and modern English, plus Anglo‑French/Norman gaps.
- Several note how language history complicates modern nationalist narratives and fixed ideas of “Englishness” or “Frenchness.”