Hacker News, Distilled

AI powered summaries for selected HN discussions.

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How to Turn Off AI Overview in Google and Set "Web" as Default

Ways to Disable or Bypass AI Overview

  • Many prefer to “disable” AI Overview by simply abandoning Google Search or using it only via special modes.
  • Several mention appending udm=14 to the Google URL to force the “Web” view.
  • Some describe browser-specific tricks (e.g., custom search engines in Firefox), though instructions in the article don’t match all platforms (Ubuntu GNOME, Windows, macOS).
  • Others avoid the problem entirely by using non‑Google search engines or command-line tools that scrape SERPs as plain HTML.

Migration to Alternative Search Engines

  • Strong sentiment to switch to other engines: DuckDuckGo, Kagi, Qwant, StartPage, Brave Search, Bing.
  • DuckDuckGo’s “bangs” feature (!g, !w, etc.) is praised as a seamless fallback to Google.
  • Some note DuckDuckGo is largely Bing-backed and ad-supported but still perceived as less intrusive.
  • Kagi receives repeated positive mentions for: clean UI, “quick answers” with explicit citations, domain filters, and non-intrusive, opt‑in AI features.
  • A few say they almost never need Google anymore; others see Google as still necessary for edge cases.

Quality and Reliability of AI Overviews

  • Many examples are shared of AI Overview being factually wrong, incoherent, or internally inconsistent.
  • Some find this dangerous for medical-style queries where users may not fact-check.
  • Others report mostly positive experiences and say it often gives them exactly what they need, faster than clicking links.
  • Non-determinism is criticized: different users or times can yield different answers, making trust and reproducibility harder.
  • A minority likes that AI overviews “burn Google’s cash,” but still sees them as early-stage.

User Experience and UI Concerns

  • Frequent complaints that AI Overview and other modules push organic results far down the page, especially on mobile.
  • Some dislike the “reels-like” scrolling experience and overall visual clutter compared with older, simpler Google.
  • Others appreciate AI for quick summaries of things they already understand (e.g., syntax snippets) to avoid ad-ridden pages.

Impact on the Web and Publishers

  • Concern that AI summaries will reduce clicks to sites that rely on ads or affiliate links.
  • Some speculate Google may eventually bias AI content for commercial reasons, further distorting the ecosystem.
  • One comment notes that if sites themselves start using AI to generate content, the harm may be circular.

Views on Google’s Strategy and Culture

  • Many see AI Overview as driven by hype, shareholder pressure, and internal promotion incentives (“ship new AI” vs. improve existing products).
  • There is nostalgia for older, focused Google products and frustration with a decade of perceived missteps (Reader shutdown, chat fragmentation, Stadia, constant UI churn).
  • Some argue that as long as revenues, profits, and stock price are at records, the strategy is “working” for shareholders, even if users feel product quality is declining.
  • Others blame a fragmented, metrics-driven culture and lack of coherent vision; Google is described as fiefdoms competing for performance metrics.

Broader Reflections on AI and “Innovation”

  • Several commenters are wary of AI being bolted onto everything, calling it half-baked and unsuitable for a mainline, mass product.
  • Others defend experimentation, arguing that integrating AI into core search is a major, necessary change and will improve over time.
  • Some predict an AI investment bubble and eventual commoditization (local LLMs, cheap GPUs); others think it will remain transformative.
  • There is a theme that “innovation” is often a euphemism for user-hostile changes driven by revenue and hype rather than clear user benefit.

Show HN: Pls Fix – Hire big tech employees to appeal account suspensions

Idea and immediate reactions

  • Service is a marketplace where users post bounties for “insider” help appealing bans or fixing issues at big tech platforms.
  • Some commenters call it “fantastic” and badly needed, given current support; others see it as “disturbing,” “cursed,” or performance-art-level satire about how broken support has become.

Ethical and legal concerns

  • Many describe it as corruption or commercial bribery: employees taking personal payment to use internal tools or processes.
  • Cited risks: breach of employment contracts, immediate firing, and potential criminal exposure under commercial bribery laws.
  • Several emphasize the moral difference between helping friends for free vs. monetizing privileged access.

Risks to employees and honeypot fears

  • Strong consensus that big tech has insider-risk teams and audit trails; accessing internal tools for strangers is likely traceable.
  • Many suspect the site could itself be a honeypot or a trivial target for internal sting operations.
  • Doubts that any well-paid engineer would risk a high-paying job for a few hundred dollars, though some note lower-paid or offshore staff might.

User frustration with big-tech support

  • Numerous anecdotes of accounts (Google, Meta, Reddit, Twitter/X, Stripe, etc.) wrongly banned or locked with no meaningful appeal path.
  • Internal “friends at the company” channels are often the only way to fix life- or business-altering false positives.
  • Some see the marketplace as exposing an already-existing informal economy of favors, referrals, or even alleged under-the-table fixes.

Moderation, scale, and fairness debates

  • Long subthreads debate the inherent difficulty of at-scale moderation and recovery: tradeoffs between catching abusers vs. harming innocents.
  • Some argue even one wrongful permanent ban without real appeal is intolerable; others say perfection is impossible with billions of users.
  • Concern that two-tier systems (public vs. internal/friend channels) are inherently unfair but already standard.

Perverse incentives and abuse potential

  • Fears of escalation to outright extortion: insiders (or impersonators) might get accounts banned to sell “fixes.”
  • Worries that truly bad actors (e.g., serious ToS violators) could buy reinstatement, undermining safety systems.

Suggestions and broader reflections

  • Proposals: official paid premium support, charity-based payments instead of direct kickbacks, protest sites, or regulatory mandates for human appeals (e.g., EU-style rules).
  • Many see the startup less as a viable business and more as a stark symptom of enshittified, unaccountable customer support at dominant platforms.

The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

Impact and Prevalence of Early Trauma

  • Many commenters describe severe childhood abuse, neglect, and chaotic homes; several say early trauma “never leaves” but can become more manageable.
  • Childhood trauma is linked in the discussion to dramatically worse adult health, including higher risk of many diseases, addiction, and mental illness.
  • Some argue almost everyone carries some trauma, but with wide variation in severity and response.

Health, Medicine, and Systems

  • Commenters are frustrated that medical training and “trauma‑informed care” often ignore long‑term physical health consequences of trauma.
  • Several describe navigating major health problems and paying heavily for “healthcare” while having to self‑educate and self‑treat.
  • Mental health systems are described as overloaded, with long waits, especially for teenagers who might benefit most from early intervention.

Personal Experiences and Lifelong Effects

  • Recurrent themes: difficulty trusting, avoidant or fearful attachment, dissociation, inability to set boundaries or say no, cynicism, chronic guilt and self‑blame.
  • Some men note social pressure to repress trauma (“best way is to pretend it never happened”), which later backfires.
  • Estrangement from abusive parents, and conflicted feelings about having children and “stopping the trauma” with this generation, are common.

Intergenerational and Societal Dynamics

  • Trauma is seen as self‑perpetuating: “hurt people hurt people,” including parents repeating what they rationalize as “what made me strong.”
  • Several connect current struggles to generational trauma from war, poverty, and harsh historical parenting norms.
  • Debate: some argue children were “immeasurably more traumatized” in the past; others think certain modern patterns (emotional neglect, divorce, fragmented community) create more early relational trauma today.

Foster Care and Institutional Harm

  • Foster care is described as inherently traumatizing even when necessary and non‑abusive, mainly due to forced family separation.
  • Institutions (schools, psychologists, churches) often side with abusers, re‑enacting harm or disbelieving children.

Therapy, Religion, and Skepticism

  • Many endorse therapy, trauma‑focused books, and practices like attachment work, somatic approaches, and “focusing.”
  • Others are skeptical: they see over‑pathologizing, weak evidence, “trauma industry” dynamics, and note rising antidepressant use despite more therapy talk.
  • Organized religion is portrayed both as a powerful source of resilience, belonging, and meaning, and as a source or cover for serious abuse.

Attachment, Coping, and Recovery Strategies

  • Attachment theory and complex PTSD frameworks are frequently cited as helpful lenses.
  • Practical strategies mentioned: lifestyle changes (sleep, diet, exercise), choosing low‑stress work, building safe relationships, learning vulnerability and communication, and gradually unpacking buried experiences.
  • Several stress that healing is slow, nonlinear, and often requires both inner work and supportive community; complete “cure” is seen as unlikely, but substantial improvement is common.

Why Your Wi-Fi Router Doubles as an Apple AirTag

Tracking via Wi‑Fi, Bluetooth, and Other Signals

  • Access points (APs) broadcast static identifiers (BSSIDs/MACs) that enable long‑term location tracking, similar in effect to AirTags.
  • Bluetooth devices (phones, TVs, cars) are also seen as strong tracking beacons; moving a TV or in‑vehicle AP can effectively reveal a household move.
  • Some argue more authoritative records (voter registration, mail forwarding, payroll, banks, retailers, USPS) already map residential moves, so Wi‑Fi is just one of many signals.

Privacy Strategies and Threat Models

  • Some participants take extreme measures: changing AP hardware/BSSIDs on moves, avoiding personal info in SSIDs, using multiple residences, or ensuring primary sleeping address is never in common databases.
  • Others consider this overkill because many official or commercial records will still leak addresses.
  • Cash‑only landlords, PO boxes, and “vanlife” are mentioned as ways to keep real sleeping locations off public records.

Opt‑Out SSID Suffixes (_nomap, _optout) and Criticism

  • Apple, Google, Microsoft, and WiGLE honor SSID markers like _nomap or _optout to exclude APs from their Wi‑Fi positioning systems.
  • Many criticize this as backwards: privacy requires attention‑drawing SSID changes, may not be honored consistently, and different vendors use incompatible tags, leading to ugly “ssid_optout_nomap”‑style names.
  • Several posters distrust that these flags are actually respected, calling it a pure “trust” mechanism.

Apple vs Google WPS Design and Exposure

  • Google’s system computes user location server‑side and returns just the location.
  • Apple’s API returns locations of hundreds of nearby BSSIDs so devices can compute location locally; this verbosity enabled large‑scale mapping by researchers.
  • Some see Apple’s on‑device design as better for user privacy; others note that exposing a world‑scale BSSID location database is itself a major privacy and security risk.

Client Device Behavior and Technical Nuances

  • Hidden SSIDs don’t truly hide networks; they remove the SSID from beacons but cause clients to probe with network names, worsening privacy.
  • Android and other devices attempt to reconnect to known networks, which combined with saved SSID lists can uniquely identify and locate users.
  • MAC randomization exists but is typically per‑SSID or per‑day; only a few systems reportedly randomize per connection attempt.
  • Some want APs that periodically randomize their BSSIDs; OpenWRT plus reboot scripts is suggested as a workaround.

Data Use, Ethics, and “Public Airwaves” Argument

  • One camp argues that anything broadcast over radio is inherently public; collecting BSSIDs/MACs fails any “expectation of privacy” test.
  • Others counter that ordinary users don’t realize this and just want simple home Wi‑Fi, so large‑scale commercial harvesting of these signals still feels like a privacy violation.
  • Data brokers are suspected of replicating these datasets without the minimal privacy controls used in the research.

Open Questions and Ambiguities

  • Unclear exactly how iPhones populate Apple’s database: whether solely via handset reports or other collection methods.
  • Unclear how GDPR treats MAC addresses, though some note IPs are considered personal data.

Business Booms and Depressions Since 1775 (1943)

Deflation: harms, benefits, and mechanisms

  • Long debate on whether deflation is “mostly good” or “very bad.”
  • Critics emphasize debt dynamics: when prices and wages fall but nominal debts don’t, burdens rise, hitting poor and indebted households and farmers hardest.
  • Others argue modest price declines from productivity/technology are beneficial (greater purchasing power), and that deflation is often a symptom of crisis, not the root cause.
  • Deflationary spirals are described as rare and avoidable if authorities expand money/credit instead of doing austerity.
  • Distinction is drawn between “good deflation” (tech-driven efficiency, e.g., electronics) and “bad deflation” (collapse in demand, mass unemployment).

1920s, Great Depression, and historical cycles

  • Question: how could the 1920s have both deflation and prosperity?
  • Some argue they didn’t really coexist; the chart lumps together the 1920–21 depression, the mid‑20s boom, and the 1929 crash.
  • Multiple earlier panics (1873, 1893, 1901, etc.) are cited to show frequent pre‑WW2 crises.

Policy, central banking, and post‑WW2 changes

  • Several comments credit post‑WW2 monetary flexibility (no gold standard) and Keynesian fiscal tools for avoiding deflationary busts on the earlier scale.
  • Others blame central banking and low rates for larger modern bubbles and debt overhangs.
  • 2% inflation target is defended as a practical buffer against deflation; others call it arbitrary and a stealth tax on savers.
  • 2008 is discussed as tracking the Great Depression until aggressive monetary/fiscal intervention; some see that as necessary stabilization, others as creating a larger, deferred bubble.

Inequality, debt, and distributional effects

  • Repeated focus on who wins/loses:
    • Inflation tends to help debtors and hurt creditors/savers.
    • Deflation does the opposite and can entrench rentier classes.
  • Debate over whether “monetary expansion gone amok” and shareholder primacy are squeezing ordinary workers, forcing them into risk assets just to preserve wealth.

Business cycles and (in)stability

  • Many see booms and busts as inherent to human behavior (over‑exuberance, FOMO) and complex systems; others stress that policy can shorten or deepen downturns.
  • Taleb’s “antifragility” is invoked: cycles may be a feature, cleansing bad investments and funding risky innovation, though synchronized crashes are still highly damaging.

Central planning vs markets

  • Brief side debate: Soviet‑style planning claimed to smooth cycles but is judged to have produced chronic shortages and misallocation.
  • Some suggest planning was undermined by bad data, politics, and limited computing power; others see the failures as fundamental information/coordination problems.

War, reparations, and modern parallels

  • The chart’s depiction of the 1930s leads to discussion of WWI reparations, Weimar hyperinflation, and how punitive settlements contributed to later conflict.
  • Thread digresses into whether current sanctions and isolation of Russia risk repeating Versailles‑style mistakes; participants strongly disagree on the validity of this analogy and on responsibility for the Ukraine war.

Scaling Monosemanticity: Extracting Interpretable Features from Claude 3 Sonnet

Human communication, “truth,” and model politeness

  • Some see parallels between how people soften blunt truths for social reasons and how LLMs are “watered down” by safety tuning.
  • Others argue that full bluntness is not “more true” if it ignores human motivation and outcomes; social sensitivity is part of the “fullest truth.”
  • Debate over whether modern “sensitivity” and political correctness (in people and AI) has gone too far, and who decides the right level.

Goals, agency, and whether LLMs “think”

  • One side: LLMs have no real goals, do nothing between prompts, don’t self-update weights, and show limited long-term coherence; they resemble fixed-rule expert systems.
  • Counterpoint: By imitating human goal-directed language, they can exhibit effective “implicit goals,” though likely short-lived.
  • Discussion of whether real “thinking” requires continuous computation, persistent internal memory, or self-correction mid-output; some say these criteria are arbitrary.
  • Technical back-and-forth on KV caches: whether token generation “starts from scratch” or reuses previous internal states.

Mechanistic interpretability & monosemanticity

  • Many find the sparse autoencoder / dictionary-learning approach on a large production model deeply exciting, especially the ability to:
    • Isolate features that correspond to high-level concepts (e.g., locations, vulnerabilities, refusals).
    • Show multimodal and multilingual alignment of features.
    • Manipulate features to change model behavior in controlled ways.
  • Others see it as an incremental extension of earlier probing/ablation work and question how much is genuinely new vs scaled-up.

Safety, alignment, and norms

  • Some praise the work as evidence of serious safety effort and contrast it with other labs’ recent turbulence.
  • Others are skeptical of “AI safety” as framed, or of narrow, top-down norms (e.g., blanket NSFW bans), and doubt that interpretability meaningfully proves “understanding.”

Control, customization, and misuse potential

  • Strong interest in using discovered features for:
    • Finer-grained controllability (e.g., “semantic equalizer,” de-watering corporate tone, better code quality).
    • Training-time steering and topic emphasis.
  • Concerns that similar methods could amplify harmful “intentions” (e.g., making a model more “evil” or obsessed with a topic).

Concepts, latent space, and human analogy

  • Debate over whether discovered features reflect real, pre-existing conceptual structure or are partly artifacts of the interpretability method.
  • Discussion of how similar different models’ or humans’ “concept spaces” are, and whether convergence reflects a shared external world or just poetic metaphors.

How Shadow Banning Can Silently Shift Opinion Online

Role of Social Media: Utility vs. Private Service

  • Some argue major platforms function as essential public squares and should be regulated like utilities or phone carriers, protecting broad free expression.
  • Others stress they are private spaces with specific purposes (e.g., LGBTQ communities, topic-focused forums) that must be free to moderate off-topic or hostile content.
  • Concern: utility-style regulation could entrench monopolies and invite government overreach; counterargument is that concentrated private power is already distorting discourse.

Moderation, Free Speech, and Shadow Banning

  • One camp says platforms should only remove illegal content, otherwise allow everything and let users filter.
  • Others argue that’s unworkable: without robust moderation, platforms become unusable due to spam, scams, harassment, and abuse.
  • Shadow banning is criticized as deceptive censorship that can quietly shift opinion and should be replaced with explicit bans or transparent policies.
  • Some see it as a practical tool to reduce ban evasion and escalation, provided it’s limited, reviewed, and accompanied by ways for users to appeal.

Psychological and Ethical Concerns

  • Several posts flag potential psychological harm: users start doubting whether they are “real” or visible.
  • Shadowbanning is called “consumer fraud” by some, because content appears posted but is silently hidden.
  • Others note that most shadowbanned accounts they see are genuinely low-quality or abrasive, but acknowledge collateral damage.

Algorithms, Feeds, and Transparency

  • Proposals include: publishing recommendation algorithms (especially for content shown to children), or forcing simple reverse-chronological feeds.
  • Critics say open algorithms are hard to interpret, easy to game, and don’t expose underlying data or guarantee the code actually in production.
  • Many users want curation, so completely non-algorithmic feeds might be unpopular, though some prefer them for autonomy.

TikTok, China, and Narrative Control

  • One view: the TikTok ban is primarily about Chinese state influence over content; others see it as also or mainly about controlling domestic narratives (e.g., on Gaza).
  • Debate over whether Chinese control is meaningfully different from U.S. government and corporate influence on domestic platforms remains unresolved and contentious.

“Heavenbanning” and Extreme Manipulation

  • A hypothetical “heavenban” (surrounding a user with agreeable bots) is discussed as a plausible future tactic.
  • Many see it as dangerous: it could deepen radicalization, create deceptive echo chambers, and provoke backlash if discovered.

CADmium: A local-first CAD program built for the browser

Overall reception

  • Many commenters find the write‑up exceptionally clear, engaging, and motivating.
  • Strong excitement that someone is attempting a modern, open, local‑first parametric CAD, seen as badly needed.
  • Some skepticism that a small team can catch up with decades‑old commercial kernels and tools.

Comparisons to existing CAD tools

  • Onshape is widely praised for UX and performance, but criticized for:
    • SaaS dependency, lack of local‑first capability.
    • Proprietary, high pricing, and prior changes to free tiers.
  • FreeCAD is seen as powerful but:
    • Very inconsistent and confusing in UX.
    • Hampered historically by the “topological naming problem” and OpenCascade fillet/chamfer fragility.
  • SolveSpace is praised as the only truly usable free parametric CAD by some, but lacks key features (e.g., robust fillets).
  • Ondsel is described as a commercial distribution around FreeCAD with UX improvements, new assembly and configuration features, and cloud collaboration.

Technical discussion: kernels, constraints, and performance

  • Truck (the kernel used by CADmium) is seen as promising: a potential open alternative to OpenCascade/Parasolid.
  • Multiple comments emphasize how difficult robust fillets/chamfers and surface offsets are; success there is viewed as a litmus test for kernel maturity.
  • Constraint solving:
    • Debate over 2D vs full 3D constraint solvers; several argue 3D is necessary for assemblies.
    • Claims that large constraint systems are manageable with modern sparse solvers; some think the article overstates performance limits.
    • Existing solvers from SolveSpace and Ondsel are mentioned as usable references.

UX, open source, and learning curve

  • Repeated theme: open‑source tools often have weak, inconsistent UX due to fragmented design and reluctance to enforce a coherent vision.
  • Many recount frustration learning FreeCAD via poor tutorials and fragile workflows; contrast with relatively quick success in Onshape/Fusion.
  • Others note FreeCAD UX and documentation have improved, with better tutorials and active design work.

Architecture & data formats

  • Using the browser is debated:
    • Pro: instant cross‑platform access (desktop, mobile, makerspaces) without installs.
    • Con: some want native binaries; skepticism about matching native performance and integration.
  • Electron is seen as a pragmatic way to get desktop integration given immature Rust GUI stacks.
  • Using JSON for everything gets pushback from people who prefer strongly typed formats like STEP + schemas.

Licensing, openness, and ecosystem

  • Choice of an Elastic‑style license prompts concern; some argue AGPL would be better aligned with “open” while still deterring cloud resellers.
  • Broader worries that any VC‑backed or open‑core product may drift into subscription SaaS and away from truly local‑first use.
  • Desire for:
    • A non‑subscription, reasonably priced or truly free CAD.
    • Preservation of parametric history and constraints in exchange formats (beyond today’s mostly geometric STEP).
  • Some dislike reliance on Discord for project coordination and advocate more open communication platforms.

“Dark money” groups help private ISPs lobby against municipal broadband

Meaning and Ethics of “Dark Money”

  • Disagreement over the term: some see it as apt because donors are hidden; others say it’s a loaded phrase for a neutral mechanism used by many causes.
  • One side argues anonymous big-money political giving is inherently sinister and undermines democratic equality; another stresses anonymity as protection for people backing unpopular or once‑controversial causes (e.g., civil rights, gay marriage).
  • Comparisons are made to secret ballots: critics say money isn’t “one person, one vote” and amplifies wealthy voices; defenders say disclosure can enable harassment and intimidation.
  • Suggested compromise: keep small individual donors anonymous but require disclosure for large donors and all corporate/legal entities.

Municipal Broadband: Economics and Fairness

  • Anti‑municipal messaging highlighted in the article is seen as funded by incumbents protecting profits, not public-interest analysis.
  • Critics of municipal broadband say if it can’t be self‑sustaining, it unfairly taxes non‑users and risks becoming a de facto government monopoly.
  • Supporters counter that many public services aren’t profitable (roads, libraries), that private ISPs already receive subsidies, and that everyone benefits indirectly from broadband infrastructure.
  • Some outline models:
    • Self‑funding public utility at cost.
    • “Broadband for all” funded via general taxation.
    • Targeted subsidies vs universal service.
  • The oft‑cited “90% fail” figure is challenged as misleading because it counts young networks still repaying build‑out loans.

Privacy, FOIA, and Municipal ISPs

  • Concern: government‑run ISPs could have traffic logs subject to FOIA, with realistic risk of accidental mass disclosure, based on past public-records mishandling.
  • Others respond private ISPs already monetize data, and municipal operators could minimize retention.
  • Technical debate: TLS, DNS-over-HTTPS, and encrypted SNI limit what ISPs can see, but even domain/IP data can be sensitive; impact on non‑technical or vulnerable users noted.

Lobbying, Expertise, and Policy Capture

  • Some see industry lobbying as necessary expertise for non‑expert lawmakers; others argue legislators should rely more on neutral public research bodies and less on corporate or “dark money” organizations.
  • Broad concern that the current lobbying ecosystem skews policy toward moneyed interests and away from democratic accountability.

Alternative Models and Open Access

  • Open access networks (municipal/utility‑owned fiber with multiple competing ISPs on top) are widely endorsed as a way to create competition while keeping infrastructure public and neutral.
  • Examples from abroad suggest shared physical networks with multiple ISPs can work well, though U.S. specifics may differ.

What UI density means and how to design for it

What “UI density” should capture

  • Many argue density is not just “more stuff,” but maximizing useful information while preserving visual salience and boundaries.
  • Frames, whitespace, and grouping all increase salience; 90s-style framed UIs can be both dense and scannable.
  • Tufte’s “data-ink ratio” is frequently referenced, but some note his examples in the article were mis-labeled.

Pro tools vs consumer apps

  • Strong consensus: tools used daily for focused work (trading, DAWs, IDEs, ERPs) should be dense to minimize clicks and context switches.
  • For infrequent or casual use, sparse, guided flows can be better.
  • Disagreement on novices: some say low density helps, others say high-context, well-organized dense screens are actually easier to learn.
  • Several note that over-optimizing for “new users” harms power users and can trap everyone as perpetual beginners.

Mobile, desktop, and responsive design

  • Many blame low-density desktop UIs on “mobile-first” designs stretched to large screens.
  • One camp: web and mobile paradigms are fundamentally different and need separate designs.
  • Another: responsive design can work well, but is usually done superficially (hamburgering sidebars, stacking columns, stripping features).
  • Touch targets and small screens legitimately cap density on mobile, but people resent when those constraints are blindly applied to desktops.

Customization and “dense modes”

  • Recurrent proposal: user-selectable compact / dense modes or basic vs advanced views.
  • Others warn that multiple UIs add significant design, dev, and maintenance cost and can fragment learning.

Temporal density & performance

  • Thread extends “density” into time: how many steps and how long to complete a task.
  • Streaming LLM responses feel faster than delayed full responses; clever loaders can make long waits feel shorter or market “work done.”
  • Many users find artificial or padded delays deceptive and infuriating; performance is seen by some as table stakes, not a “nice-to-have.”

Examples and cultural contrasts

  • Physical restaurant menus, Bloomberg Terminal, Craigslist, FINVIZ, and some East Asian / Chinese apps are cited as dense but effective (with caveats about clutter and dark patterns).
  • Vanguard’s and banking sites’ “beautiful but low-density” designs are criticized as hiding needed detail and wasting space.

Why UIs got sparse (speculated in thread)

  • Hypotheses: optimize for lowest-common-denominator users, mobile-first fashion, copying big platforms, engagement metrics that reward time-waste over efficiency, and designers prioritizing aesthetic trends over domain understanding.

One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

Aircraft, reporting, and investigation

  • Several comments note BBC did not headline “Boeing” despite current scrutiny of the company; some call this restraint, others say the bar is low.
  • AVHerald is cited for data, including that the 73‑year‑old fatality likely died of a heart attack, not direct impact trauma.
  • Some emphasize modern “just culture” accident investigation: focus on systemic causes and prevention, not blame. Others assume authorities/insurers will still try to apportion liability, but official mandates (TSIB, AAIB) explicitly reject that as an investigation goal.

Turbulence mechanics and severity

  • Many explain that clear‑air turbulence (CAT) often can’t be seen on radar and may come without warning, unlike storm‑related turbulence.
  • Discussion clarifies that the reported 6,000‑ft descent was over minutes and consistent with a normal diversion descent, not a stall or uncontrolled plunge.
  • Severe negative/rapid G can throw unrestrained passengers into the ceiling; interior panel damage likely reflects passengers hitting them, not structural failure.
  • Debate on physics: free fall vs downdrafts; consensus is that strong vertical air movements can push the aircraft down faster than free‑fall relative to the cabin contents, causing impacts both “up” and then “down.”

Seatbelts, movement, and risk trade‑offs

  • Strong theme: keep seatbelts fastened whenever seated, regardless of sign; many are surprised how few people do this.
  • Others push back that turbulence deaths are extremely rare relative to total passengers, so constant belt use or fear is seen as overcautious.
  • There’s an extended argument over risk mitigation vs “living in fear,” with analogies to car seatbelts, helmets, and COVID masking; some frame small precautions as rational, others as excessive.
  • Multiple comments raise DVT risk on long flights and suggest a trade‑off: periodic walking vs staying strapped in; others reply that leg exercises in the seat can reduce clot risk without extended walking.

Trends, prediction, and climate change

  • Some perceive turbulence as less frequent in recent decades; others cite studies (linked in thread) indicating moderate and severe CAT are increasing, likely due to climate change.
  • Better weather radar, routing, and turbulence “nowcast” products are mentioned, though these tools are not yet universally adopted and don’t solve CAT.
  • Speculative technologies (e.g., forward‑looking lidar/laser systems) are discussed as possible future aids but are not in routine use.

Going Dark: The war on encryption is on the rise

EU surveillance legislation and ChatControl

  • Discussion centers on renewed EU efforts (e.g., ChatControl) to mandate scanning of private communications, including proposals to rebrand and reintroduce previously stalled bills.
  • Key concern: exemption for politicians and police from monitoring, while ordinary citizens are subject to mass scanning.
  • Some see clear echoes of past authoritarian systems and a de facto re‑creation of aristocratic privilege. Others object to loaded terms like “Stasi-fans” as unhelpful emotionalization.

Asymmetry: citizens monitored, elites exempt

  • Many argue surveillance should target those with power (politicians, police) to reduce corruption, not the general public.
  • Fears that “politician/police” status is temporary; people rotate out of these roles but surveillance infrastructure remains.
  • Worry that loopholes (e.g., running for minor office) will then be closed by further restrictions on political participation.

Privacy vs security and technical realities

  • Several point out that encryption is mathematically binary: either it works or it doesn’t; “privacy-preserving scanning” of E2EE is seen as impossible.
  • Strong view: outlawing strong crypto mainly harms law‑abiding users; criminals will still use independent tools, libraries, or side‑loaded apps.
  • Counterpoint: states can and do shift focus to endpoints (spyware, client-side scanning) and legal compulsion, as seen in other jurisdictions.
  • Debate over how much scale matters: some say breaking WhatsApp/iMessage would roll us back to niche encrypted tools; others respond that even niche tools suffice for motivated criminals.

Surveillance, democracy, and power

  • Widespread worry that EU-level decision-making is insulated from voters, with many layers between elections and specific policies.
  • Some see U.S. security interests and corporations as key influencers; others stress the EU’s own agency and internal lobbying.
  • Broader fear: centralizing data and powers for prosecution without symmetric transparency or tools for defense.

Everyday surveillance and loss of analog options

  • Multiple comments note de facto pressure to own smartphones (banking 2FA, government services, menus, payments).
  • Some insist analog and paper options still exist; others counter that these are rapidly disappearing, marginalizing those who opt out.
  • Corporate surveillance (phones, social media, CDNs) is seen by many as already exceeding classic “1984” scenarios, blurring state–corporate boundaries.

Law enforcement capability and risks to innocents

  • One detailed anecdote describes a traumatic CSAM-related raid based on IP evidence, seizure of equipment for months, and no charges.
  • The storyteller portrays investigators as technically unsophisticated, overconfident in weak indicators (VMs, MEGA usage, Tor presence), and procedurally unaccountable.
  • This is cited as evidence that expanding surveillance will amplify harm to innocents unless paired with far stronger protections and oversight.

Data, profiling, and AI “astrology”

  • Concerns that mass data + crude profiling (inspired by past FBI methods) will produce “data-driven astrology”: plausible-sounding but unreliable inferences.
  • AI-based enhancement and pattern finding is expected by some to worsen junk science (e.g., hallucinated image “enhancement”), especially when politicians overrule technical experts.

What citizens can do / unresolved issues

  • Suggestions include supporting digital rights groups, using VPNs, open-source tools, user-controlled encryption, and even falling back to paper notebooks.
  • Nonetheless, there is pessimism: legal compulsion, economic centralization (big platforms, CDNs, clouds), and political incentives may keep pushing toward pervasive surveillance.
  • Some explicitly ask how to vote in their own best interest when key decisions are made by relatively insulated institutions, and receive no clear answer.

NoTunes is a macOS application that will prevent Apple Music from launching

Annoyance with Apple Music auto-launching

  • Many users report Apple Music launching unexpectedly:
    • When pressing hardware media keys, especially at boot or before interacting with another player (e.g., Spotify).
    • When connecting certain Bluetooth headsets, including in cars and with AirPods in some scenarios.
    • When inline media (e.g., Instagram on iPhone) stops playing, triggering music on a Mac.
  • This is disruptive for calls (Meet, Zoom), car use, and people who prefer other players.

Possible causes and variability

  • Some cannot reproduce the issue on recent macOS or with certain headphones (AirPods, Sony, Beats).
  • Several suspect specific Bluetooth devices/car systems send an automatic “play” command when connecting.
  • Others insist macOS/iOS still prefer Apple Music even when other audio apps were used last.
  • Whether this behavior is a “bug” or intentional nudge toward Apple Music is debated and unclear.

Workarounds, tools, and hacks

  • NoTunes is praised as a simple solution that blocks Music but lets other players respond to media keys.
  • Alternatives/workarounds mentioned:
    • Unloading media-related launch agents (which can disable media keys entirely).
    • Using key remappers (Hammerspoon, Karabiner), media key forwarders, or BeardedSpice forks.
    • Using Apple Configurator profiles, Santa, or uninstalling Music on iOS.
    • Bluetooth-sleep utilities like Bluesnooze and various window/UX tools (AltTab, Rectangle, Amethyst).

Broader criticism of Apple’s design choices

  • Frustration that a separate app is needed for behavior users see as a basic toggle.
  • Complaints about other “missing” or rigid features: sleep/“clamshell” behavior, universal clipboard granularity, lack of clipboard history, poor window management, unremovable apps, and menu bar clutter.
  • Some see this as part of a broader “walled garden” / services-revenue strategy and even as an antitrust concern.
  • Others argue at Apple’s scale reduced configurability lowers support burden, and some appreciate the overall macOS experience despite such annoyances.

Comparisons with other platforms

  • Multiple anecdotes of moving parents or relatives to Linux (e.g., Ubuntu, Fedora, Manjaro/XFCE, ChromeOS) with fewer support calls.
  • Others counter that Linux hardware/driver issues or Windows bloat/ads are worse; macOS is seen as “sucks less” overall.

Building an AI game studio: what we've learned so far

Overall concept & goals

  • Tool aims to let non-programmers/non-artists build games via natural-language “AI game studio,” with multiplayer-by-default creation and play.
  • Some see it as akin to GameMaker but AI-driven; others see it more as a sandbox / Roblox-style collaborative creation platform.
  • Devs emphasize rapid iteration on concepts, not replacing traditional engines outright (limited scope at first, then expanding).

Creation vs. marketing & commercial reality

  • Repeated theme: making games is now relatively easy; discoverability and marketing are the hard problems.
  • Steam is saturated; median revenues are low, especially once team size, platform cuts, and taxes are considered.
  • Several argue AI can help with fast prototyping and “finding the fun,” but not with standing out or building an audience.
  • Others counter that excellent, niche games can still make a living, but success is uneven and often luck- or influencer-driven.

IP and copyright concerns

  • Demo using clear Star Wars-style assets (X‑wings, BB‑8, etc.) drew strong criticism as reckless copyright infringement.
  • Skeptics argue safe-harbor logic for user-generated content does not apply when the platform itself generates infringing assets.
  • Use of third-party services like Meshy with CC-BY licensing for AI-generated models raises questions about who actually owns the IP.

Technical approach & limits

  • System uses a constrained internal “mini-engine” with structured APIs (e.g., createOrUpdateRule) instead of generating arbitrary code.
  • This is praised as practical (config over code) but criticized as potentially too limited to express complex behaviors.
  • Debugging via “tell GPT this is broken” plus error/context feedback works sometimes; robustness is unclear.
  • Some see strong potential as a prototyping or “super modding” tool rather than a full Unity/Unreal replacement.

Impact on creativity & labor

  • Enthusiasts: lowers barriers for kids, hobbyists, and non-coders; could enable more personal, small-scale games and new kinds of collaboration.
  • Skeptics: fear commoditized, AI-sludge content, job loss for artists/animators, and a flood of low-effort games and ads.
  • Debate over whether “prompting” can ever replace the detailed, iterative design work that actually makes games fun.

Future directions

  • Interest in AI-driven NPCs/LLM agents, AI-assisted mods for existing games, and possibly marketing/community tools.
  • Unclear how far current LLMs can go beyond “bland” results without heavy human steering and editing.

Why Are Sloths So Slow?

Sloth biology & behavior

  • Sloths host extensive ecosystems in their fur: algae for camouflage and “tons” of insects, including moths and beetles, some apparently sloth‑specific.
  • They descend from trees to defecate about once a week, which is dangerous for them. Linked material suggests this behavior is still not fully understood.
  • Stomach contents can be about a third of body weight; comments joke about the implied math of feces vs. body mass.
  • Their feces reportedly smell exceptionally bad; unclear if this has any real predator‑deterrent function.
  • Sloths have rod monochromacy, meaning only rod cells in their eyes. It’s described as a “rare genetic condition” among mammals, though it is universal in sloths.

Why sloths are so slow (evolution discussion)

  • Summary of article’s implied reasons:
    • Poor eyesight makes fast movement dangerous in trees.
    • Very slow metabolism fits a diet of low‑calorie leaves and low food intake.
    • Motionlessness plus algae camouflage helps avoid detection by motion‑oriented predators.
  • Some see a chicken‑and‑egg issue: did poor eyesight cause slowness, or did a slow lifestyle make better eyesight unnecessary?
  • Several comments stress that evolution is not goal‑driven; “slow and low‑energy” is just one viable niche, not an “improvement.”
  • Slow metabolism is compared to ultra‑frugal living: spending very little energy reduces the need to “earn” energy via foraging and risk.

Predators, vulnerability, and niche

  • Sloths do get eaten by predators like big cats and eagles, including from the canopy.
  • Their low muscle mass and high proportion of indigestible leaf matter may make them relatively poor‑value prey, possibly reducing selection pressure to specialize in hunting them.
  • There is speculation that they could be vulnerable to new predators or invasive species, but this remains unclear.

Strength and danger

  • Despite their slow movement, sloths are described as very strong, with powerful grip and jaws.
  • One anecdote describes a sloth quickly climbing a new tree after a fall, and another notes serious injury from a sloth bite.

Language and meta‑discussion

  • Extensive side thread on how to pronounce “sloth” (“slawth” vs. “slowth”) and the historical “-th” noun suffix (e.g., warmth, depth, youth).
  • Some frustration with the article’s formatting (low contrast, random bolding).

iTerm2 3.5.0

AI features & behavior

  • 3.5.0 adds two main LLM features:
    • “Engage AI” (Cmd+Y): user types a natural-language request; iTerm returns shell commands in a small pane; user must explicitly paste/run them.
    • “Codecierge” in the Toolbelt: can watch terminal output and guide the user toward a goal; optionally can “run commands automatically,” with strong warnings about risk.
  • Both require the user to supply an OpenAI API key; no key → features don’t function.
  • Default prompt focuses on returning copy‑pasteable shell commands without extra commentary.

Privacy, security, and compliance concerns

  • Many commenters are uneasy about any AI integration in a terminal, especially with an option to stream “everything that happens” to OpenAI.
  • Some argue this is unacceptable for confidential work or regulated environments (HIPAA/SOC2, enterprise security policies).
  • Others counter that:
    • The feature is strictly opt‑in and can’t work without a user-supplied key.
    • Network controls/firewalls are the real enforcement layer.
    • Source code is available for audit.
  • Concern that junior staff may feel pressured to enable AI to “keep up,” creating organizational risk.

Local models and configuration UX

  • iTerm allows configuring a custom “URL for AI API” in Advanced settings, enabling OpenAI‑compatible local services (e.g., Ollama), though support for some setups is only in the next/beta release.
  • Several users found the AI settings discoverability and lack of an explicit “enable/disable” checkbox confusing.
  • Debate over whether updater/release notes made AI changes sufficiently clear.

Attitudes toward AI in terminals

  • Supporters see clear utility: generating jq/awk/ffmpeg commands, explaining obscure errors, and avoiding context‑switching to a browser.
  • Critics see “AI everywhere” as gimmicky, risky, or philosophically wrong for terminals, and some plan to avoid or pin older versions.

Other notable features & general reception

  • Non‑AI improvements appreciated: better shell integration behavior for long outputs, OSC 52 clipboard support (good with Neovim 0.10), tmux control‑mode integration, leader key support, and continued overall polish.
  • iTerm2 is widely praised as feature‑rich, stable, and donation‑worthy, though some prefer simpler/faster terminals.

Alternatives & ecosystem

  • Alternatives mentioned: WezTerm (frequently praised), Alacritty, Kitty, Ghostty (private beta), Prompt, and stock Terminal.app.
  • Some users consider switching specifically to avoid any AI hooks; others view the backlash as overblown given the optional nature.

The OpenAI board was right

Alleged Scarlett Johansson Voice Misuse

  • Many see OpenAI’s “Sky” voice as an intentional imitation of Johansson’s AI role in Her, especially given prior outreach to her and the CEO’s “her” tweet.
  • Others argue the voice is clearly a different actor and just a generic “flirty American woman”; similarity is inevitable among finite human voices.
  • Some think pulling the voice suggests legal worry or bad PR; others say removing it is not an admission of guilt.

Legal Debates: Likeness, Voice, and “Passing Off”

  • Multiple comments cite right-of-publicity and voice-misappropriation precedents (e.g., Bette Midler, Tom Waits), arguing that using a soundalike to evoke a specific celebrity and role can be unlawful “passing off.”
  • Skeptics question how to define “similar enough,” whether voice can be owned, and warn about slippery slopes for voice actors who naturally resemble famous voices.
  • Several note that intent and marketing context (references to Her, timing of permission requests) would be central if litigated; outcome is seen as uncertain.

Data “Theft” and AI Training

  • Strong sentiment that OpenAI—and big tech generally—are “built on theft,” repurposing decades of public writing and media without consent or royalties.
  • Others counter that using public information for training is akin to humans learning from what they read; distinguishing human learning from large-scale commercial “lossy compression” is contested.
  • Comparisons are made to search engines and cable TV; critics say LLMs, unlike search, don’t drive users back to original sources.

Culture, Governance, and Trust

  • Many portray the CEO as power- and PR-driven, emblematic of a tech culture that treats “no” as negotiable and normalizes “move fast and break things.”
  • Some defend his effectiveness at organizing teams and creating value, while still acknowledging pervasive dishonesty and consent problems.
  • The shift from non-profit, “benefit humanity” origins to closed, for-profit behavior intensifies distrust and calls for regulatory or legal intervention.

LLM Value vs. Harm

  • Engineers and users describe LLMs as impressive and useful for brainstorming, orientation in new domains, and “where do I start?” moments.
  • Others say benefits are overhyped and likely outweighed by harms: content appropriation, energy and water use, labor displacement, and erosion of creative incentives.

CamelCase vs underscores: Scientific showdown (2011)

Identifier styles: camelCase vs snake_case

  • Many find snake_case easier to read; underscores act like “breathing space” between words.
  • Others prefer camelCase, claiming it’s equally or more readable, especially in expressions where variables, functions, and parameters stand out visually.
  • Several note that language conventions strongly shape preferences (e.g., starting in Java vs Python).
  • Some mix styles (e.g., CamelCase/PascalCase for types, snake_case for variables) and find that distinction helpful.
  • Studies mentioned: one follow-up suggests differences in find time mainly for 3‑word names; another (recalled from elsewhere) allegedly favored snake_case readability.

Hyphen / kebab-case and operator conflicts

  • Kebab-case is praised as aesthetically pleasing, ergonomic, and “objectively” better due to fewer keystrokes.
  • Main pushback: ambiguity with subtraction (a-b vs a - b), mutual-exclusion edge cases like a, b, a-b, and problems interoperating with languages that disallow hyphens (e.g., CSS vs JavaScript background-colorbackgroundColor).
  • Some propose grammar rules (e.g., -b illegal) or better error messages to mitigate confusion.

Spaces and unconventional identifiers

  • Several explore allowing spaces in identifiers, citing historical precedents (Fortran, ALGOL) and SQL-style quoted identifiers.
  • Concerns: parsing ambiguity (especially with infix operators and ML-style application), loss of keywords for variable names, and more opportunities for subtle bugs.
  • Workarounds floated: using TAB or non-breaking spaces, special prefixes, or dots/commas as separators; many examples are acknowledged as more “fun” than practical.

Ergonomics, keyboards, and accessibility

  • Underscores are called a “double-pinky” and linked to RSI; others report no issue or different fingerings.
  • Keyboard layout matters: on some non-US layouts _ is easy and may invert any performance/comfort conclusions.
  • Tabs vs spaces briefly enters the discussion, with an argument that tabs are better accessibility “markup” for indentation.

Language conventions and interoperability

  • Strong theme: follow the dominant convention of each language and its standard library to avoid cognitive dissonance.
  • Cross-language work (e.g., camelCase code with snake_case SQL schemas, CSS vs JS) creates friction and translation/grep issues.
  • There is some frustration with inconsistent or legacy standard libraries (e.g., Python’s logging), and with acronym capitalization rules in CamelCase/PascalCase.

Historical, aesthetic, and tooling angles

  • Analogies to scriptio continua, boustrophedon, and Japanese writing are used to argue that visible word boundaries significantly aid comprehension.
  • Some fantasize about fonts/IDEs that visually enhance camelCase (e.g., anti-ligatures, overlays) or even about sharing code as ASTs so everyone “renders” with their own style.

Microsoft's AI chatbot will 'recall' everything you do on its new PCs

Overall reaction to Recall

  • Dominant tone is distrust and frustration; many see Recall as the latest step in Windows becoming adware/spyware rather than a “personal” OS.
  • Some argue this could be a genuinely powerful feature if fully local and user-controlled.
  • A minority frames excitement around AI-assisted “photographic memory” and better retrieval of past work.

Privacy, consent, and surveillance

  • Major concern: continuous screenshots of everything on screen effectively create a perfect surveillance log of users’ lives.
  • Fear of misuse by employers (“bossware”), governments, law enforcement, or future regimes, including for retroactive punishment if laws change.
  • Widespread skepticism that consent will be meaningful: patterns like “Yes / Not now” instead of “No,” repeated nags, and settings hidden or reset.
  • Anxiety that Recall-like data will be used to train models and/or viewed by human labelers.

Local vs cloud and security

  • Microsoft claims Recall runs on-device using the NPU, with storage quotas and on-disk snapshots.
  • Some note it “has to” be local today for cost reasons, but worry it may shift to the cloud later.
  • Others stress that even local storage is a huge security risk: a single compromise could expose months of highly sensitive activity.

Legal, regulatory, and antitrust angles

  • EU’s GDPR and DMA are repeatedly cited as likely constraints; people expect region-specific limitations or pushback.
  • Discussion of whistleblowing to regulators (EU + SEC) if companies knowingly violate privacy laws.
  • Some wonder if OS-level usage tracking tied to an AI assistant could raise monopolistic behavior concerns.

Impact on OS and user choice

  • Many say this accelerates their move to Linux or macOS; gaming on Linux (via Proton/Steam Deck) is cited as making migration feasible.
  • Others predict three paths: embrace new AI-heavy Windows, stick with Windows 10 as long as possible, or rely on corporate IT to neuter features via policy.
  • Tools like debloated Windows builds (e.g., AtlasOS) are suggested as partial mitigation; some think at that point you might as well switch OS.

Ethics, responsibility, and dark patterns

  • Long subthread on who’s responsible for hostile UX (individual engineers vs “the machine” of incentives); no consensus.
  • Calls both for regulation and for individual employees to refuse unethical work, but also recognition that economic pressure makes this hard.

Alternatives and similar ideas

  • Comparisons to existing tools like Rewind (macOS) and to experimental “photographic memory” LLMs.
  • Some ask for an open-source, fully local equivalent they can control themselves.

Taking Risk

Access to Capital and Investor Risk Appetite

  • Many see UK (and broader European) investors as much more risk‑averse than US VCs: demand 3‑year cash‑flow forecasts, early break‑even, larger equity slices, and downside protections.
  • Early cheques (£50–100k) are viewed as the real gap; later‑stage capital and billion‑dollar rounds do exist.
  • Some argue SEIS and similar schemes make early UK angel investing very attractive on paper, but founders struggle to connect with those investors.
  • Others push back that UK capital flows are not as bad as portrayed and that UK is, after US/China (and maybe India), one of the stronger tech ecosystems.

Risk Culture, Failure, and Social Attitudes

  • Strong theme: UK/Europe are more risk‑averse, status‑conscious, and suspicious of entrepreneurial ambition; “safe” careers at banks, consultancies, and big tech are preferred.
  • Bankruptcy and failure are said to carry heavy stigma and regulatory consequences in the UK, though commenters dispute details and distinguish personal vs corporate insolvency.
  • Several note that in the US wild projections are culturally tolerated as ambition; in Europe similar behavior is more likely seen as lying or being a con artist.

Cost of Living, Wages, and Safety Nets

  • Multiple UK‑based engineers describe very low starting salaries relative to housing costs, making it hard to build runway or “live on ramen” to try a startup.
  • Comparisons show US tech/intern salaries often far exceed UK senior roles; yet UK public‑sector benefits (pensions, healthcare, vacation) partially offset headline gaps.
  • High rents and cramped housing are seen as limiting “garage startup” possibilities; some argue this, plus student debt, locks people into stable jobs.

Markets, Regulation, and Geography

  • US startups benefit from a huge, relatively unified home market; EU markets are fragmented by language, law, and culture.
  • Debate on whether European regulation (data protection, labor rights, taxation, “windfall taxes”) appropriately reins in externalities or overly discourages investment and exits.
  • Some see historical policy (e.g., high past tax rates, union conflicts) as having delayed venture culture in the UK.

Class, Inequality, and Who Can Take Risks

  • Several comments highlight family wealth and class: upper‑middle‑class or “trust fund” founders can absorb failures and keep trying; poorer graduates cannot.
  • A widely cited metaphor likens entrepreneurship to a carnival game: rich kids get many throws, middle‑class one or two, poor kids run the stall.